E-Touch / E-Collar training

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t jack
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by t jack »

Comet wrote:In America, the last 9 out of 10 national Ch. were e-collar trained. Don't knock it if you never had an experince. I can give you numerous examples where it works. yappy dog, I bet I can cure a squaky dog. Dog want want 2 retrieve in the water, cured, its not E.S.T ( not the old days). don't knock it until you try it.

in what way would and E collar be an aid for a dog that doesnt want to retrieve from water?
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trekmoor
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by trekmoor »

From what I've read about it, making a dog into a Nat. Champs winner in America aint easy and there is lots of very good competition working against you, both in terms of dogs and in terms of trainers. .... What makes me think a bit is that if 9 out of 10 of these dogs won and were normally e- collared, why didn't that 10th dog need it too in order to win ? That dog competed against good dogs and good handlers that have had e- collars yet it still managed to beat them without use of an e-collar.

If that dog is naturally gifted and brilliant it should be bred from to produce other dogs that don't need to be collar trained in order to be outstanding.
If it is the handler that is naturally brilliant as a trainer then he should be listened to carefully ......... he can't produce pups like him but maybe he could "produce" more handlers like him.

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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Comet
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by Comet »

Hey wulllie
Your rite a dog can be trained without an e-collar, Paul McGagh, Fred Bradley Mike wallace.... I wish I could explain it better but it will train the dog faster. Its also not cruel in the way you think. the new tech in collars has various levels. When Jim introduces a new clent on it he will put the collar on a clients wrist and show him the electric shock, its a tickle but sometimes if the dog needs a bit more shock he'll increase. I saw several dogs that Jim trained for instance that yapped & correct with 1 nick. Email Jim & he'll explain it better than I ever could. I purchased a small ess from him that retrieve to hand everytime but started to drop the bird at my feet. So he said put the e-collar on and instantly, the bitch didn't drop another bird. Google search Jim's website Wildwinds kennels in Knox, Maine ( there is another Jim Keller trianer in the midwest & he's not the guy I'm talking about). Send him an email.
trekmoor
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by trekmoor »

Hi Comet, didn't that other Jim Keller write a book on obedience training for dogs years and years ago ....... I've got a memory of reading it .... I think ? :roll:

I'm far from being anti - collar Comet. I've used one on myself and on dogs too. I joined a U.S. forum in order to learn more about how best to use them before I did much at all with dogs using one. The first collars I saw used about 45 years ago were horrendous and made me anti-collar for many years.
The modern collars, as you've said, are much , much better due to the "levels dial" on many of them.

I much prefer to train without using a collar however, I'm not keen on the idea of whole dog training programmes revolving around e- collar use. In the U.K. , Wales has already made e- collars illegal . An incredibly stupid knee jerk reaction by a bunch of politicians who know nothing about the subject !

It is very difficult in Britain to find anyone knowledgeable enough about sensible e-collar use to learn from. I believe education is better than prohibition ....... then folk can make up their own minds . I found the U.S. forum I joined very informative and when I asked what probably sounded like stupid questions I still got good answers both on the forum itself and by P.M. from folk trying to help. A couple of them wanted to know more about British training methods in return and I obliged whenever possible. The Internet has made the exchange of information so much easier ......... if you have a question , just ask and answers come flooding back ! This seems incredible to someone my age ......... it was the Science Fiction stuff of my youth !

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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mlp
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by mlp »

When I started training my dogs several years ago I thought I needed a e-collar but as time has went on I have realized that I don't. I don't like having to keep up with the excess eqipment when I hunt/train with my dogs.
Lloyd90
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by Lloyd90 »

What a shame that Martin has passed away :( I think not too long ago as well, I found this old thread a very interesting read.

I really wish I had the opportunity to speak to Martin about how he mentioned he got a dog of his to stop pointing, as mine will often do it on nothing, but only as we get onto thicker cover ...

What a wealth of knowledge lost. I hope his knowledge on the appropriate use of e-collars isn't lost with him also.

RIP Martin.
crackerd
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by crackerd »

Lloyd90 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:07 pm What a shame that Martin has passed away :( I think not too long ago as well, I found this old thread a very interesting read.

I really wish I had the opportunity to speak to Martin about how he mentioned he got a dog of his to stop pointing, as mine will often do it on nothing, but only as we get onto thicker cover ...

What a wealth of knowledge lost. I hope his knowledge on the appropriate use of e-collars isn't lost with him also.

RIP Martin.
Ditto on the RIP, good lad Martin Deeley. Appropriate use of e-collars carries on in N. America, and has progressed over the last 10 years with technology, trainer understanding, and kinder-gentler-more-conducive (rather than "more 'conductive') application.

Which, alas, lets me segue into Our Bill's nearly nine-year-old previous post on this topic
trekmoor wrote: ↑Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:59 pm From what I've read about it, making a dog into a Nat. Champs winner in America aint easy and there is lots of very good competition working against you, both in terms of dogs and in terms of trainers. .... What makes me think a bit is that if 9 out of 10 of these dogs won and were normally e- collared, why didn't that 10th dog need it too in order to win ? That dog competed against good dogs and good handlers that have had e- collars yet it still managed to beat them without use of an e-collar.
The last time a dog qualified for the National Retriever Championships (starting tomorrow, by the way, amidst a blazing California) without having been trained by the e-collar, Nicolai Tesla and T.A. Edison were dueling over AC/DC superiority. Well, almost that long ago, it seems - my best guess would be >40 years in the past, but that kind of retroactive soothsaying ain't in my wheelhouse.

MG
crackerd
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by crackerd »

Bill (et al), almost as if serendipity were speaking from a parallel past for this thread, I just read for the first time a 2012 article from "Retriever News" to attest to my comments above about progressing with use of the e-collar and "corrections" - I've linked to it below having found it online after perusing the hardcopy version with my own retrograde reading habits. Even Our Naj might like the "positive outlook" for the future of retriever training with the e-collar - but probably not. :-|
https://www.theretrievernews.com/upload ... nutson.pdf

MG
ips
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by ips »

Seen a few beating dogs and picker up dogs with e collars on over the last few seasons. One bloke last week had a springer with a collar on (beating dog) he put collar on then laughed at the fact that the dog didnt like it, dog wouldnt get out of his truck.......i felt sorry for the dog, it is about 10 or 11 so not exactly in training....
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Naj
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Re: E-Touch / E-Collar training

Post by Naj »

crackerd wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:58 pm Bill (et al), almost as if serendipity were speaking from a parallel past for this thread, I just read for the first time a 2012 article from "Retriever News" to attest to my comments above about progressing with use of the e-collar and "corrections" - I've linked to it below having found it online after perusing the hardcopy version with my own retrograde reading habits. Even Our Naj might like the "positive outlook" for the future of retriever training with the e-collar - but probably not. :-|
https://www.theretrievernews.com/upload ... nutson.pdf

MG
I feel there might be a catch here, :lol: but who couldn’t agree with the sentiment in this. Too often you hear handlers talking about their dogs as if they were the enemy rather than their shooting buddy, or equally as bad, a ‘tool’. :roll: I’m sure that the author puts it all into practice and wouldn’t dream of ever shocking a dog. :whistle:

Naj
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