E-Touch / E-Collar training

[hily]

my experience using an e collar .I bred a very driven ess bitch and after approx. 18 mths of trying to get her to work with me it came down to either get rid or try an E collar .I followed the instructions and the advice of the seller. Basics of using the dummy collar to get the dog to except the collar and taking no notice of it this took over two months . When the day came for me to use the E collar I hunted her in light cover with plenty of game about when I had to tap her for correction I always gave the verbal NO at the same time. This took place in three sessions over one day .I hunted her for a few more times with the e collar but did not use it as the verbal command was enough to keep her in check. I weaned her of the collar by using the dummy until she was working with me .To sum up I actually pressed the shock button 4 times then never had to use the collar again.Please note I cannot train my dogs to the standard for trailing but I do get them so as I can go rough shooting rabbits etc and beating plus driven days.

[Lloyd90]

my experience using an e collar .I bred a very driven ess bitch and after approx. 18 mths of trying to get her to work with me it came down to either get rid or try an E collar .I followed the instructions and the advice of the seller. Basics of using the dummy collar to get the dog to except the collar and taking no notice of it this took over two months . When the day came for me to use the E collar I hunted her in light cover with plenty of game about when I had to tap her for correction I always gave the verbal NO at the same time. This took place in three sessions over one day .I hunted her for a few more times with the e collar but did not use it as the verbal command was enough to keep her in check. I weaned her of the collar by using the dummy until she was working with me .To sum up I actually pressed the shock button 4 times then never had to use the collar again.Please note I cannot train my dogs to the standard for trailing but I do get them so as I can go rough shooting rabbits etc and beating plus driven days.

I’m starting to get into a similar situation.

My dog is well bred, he’s just gone 18 months and training on dummies or balls he is well behaved, he has won a few tickets in tests but on game goes solo, decides to ignore commands which he 100% knows and bogs off.

Just two weekends ago on our first time beating he pissed off after 3 roe and chased them across 2 big fields. I kept him on the lead for the rest of the day and give him 5 mins at the end of the last drive, he flushed some birds as trained and sat, but then decided to break the sit and pee off to go pick a bird and ignored the stop and recall.

We have done game training days with professionals, been in the rabbit pen several times I have run after him and dragged him back many many times, one of the lads who trials has said get rid of him and get a new dog, which I really don’t want to do. A pro trainer who runs in the championship ever year said to me “god, he really does love to chase”.

I’m at a sticking point, where the dog can maintain control throwing dummies, balls or whatever past him but something goes tits up when onto game, which stops us going any further.

I don’t want to go off and get an e-collar like some sort of magic fix all, yet someone has recommended one to me saying the dog currently thinks you can’t stop him when out of reach and it would be the ideal tool.

I am very torn.

[Cass]

You want to see an excited dog you should see my cocker when I pull out the e collar. He's a bit strung out to begin with but when he sees his collar it's like he just hit the nitro. Association is everything. I feel bad for that dog that Ian described. I can only imagine the blundering bloke on the transmitter.

[ips]

You want to see an excited dog you should see my cocker when I pull out the e collar. He's a bit strung out to begin with but when he sees his collar it's like he just hit the nitro. Association is everything. I feel bad for that dog that Ian described. I can only imagine the blundering bloke on the transmitter.

Cass
So does the dog associate the collar with hunting / working rather than seeing it as a bad thing like the blokes dog that i described. ?

I am beginning to see the collar as "potentially" a good training aid (in certain circumstances) if used correctly as a "training aid" rather than a punishment / correction BUT only if set low as a sort of reminder rather than set high as a punishment.

I would not say i was totally convinced as yet because i do not fully understand the method

[Lloyd90]

You want to see an excited dog you should see my cocker when I pull out the e collar. He's a bit strung out to begin with but when he sees his collar it's like he just hit the nitro. Association is everything. I feel bad for that dog that Ian described. I can only imagine the blundering bloke on the transmitter.

Cass
So does the dog associate the collar with hunting / working rather than seeing it as a bad thing like the blokes dog that i described. ?

I am beginning to see the collar as "potentially" a good training aid (in certain circumstances) if used correctly as a "training aid" rather than a punishment / correction BUT only if set low as a sort of reminder rather than set high as a punishment.

I would not say i was totally convinced as yet because i do not fully understand the method

I feel much the same... I would not get one without knowing EXACTLY how it works when used correctly, not to just light the dog up.

HOWEVER, I believe with chasing deer or sheep etc, the idea is to do exactly that? Give the dog a big zap so he thinks the sheep or deer did it to him?

[ips]

You want to see an excited dog you should see my cocker when I pull out the e collar. He's a bit strung out to begin with but when he sees his collar it's like he just hit the nitro. Association is everything. I feel bad for that dog that Ian described. I can only imagine the blundering bloke on the transmitter.

Cass
So does the dog associate the collar with hunting / working rather than seeing it as a bad thing like the blokes dog that i described. ?

I am beginning to see the collar as "potentially" a good training aid (in certain circumstances) if used correctly as a "training aid" rather than a punishment / correction BUT only if set low as a sort of reminder rather than set high as a punishment.

I would not say i was totally convinced as yet because i do not fully understand the method

I feel much the same... I would not get one without knowing EXACTLY how it works when used correctly, not to just light the dog up.

HOWEVER, I believe with chasing deer or sheep etc, the idea is to do exactly that? Give the dog a big zap so he thinks the sheep or deer did it to him?

I have no idea on the methodology and i suspect neither do most of those in uk that i have seen using them. One could argue that if it worked as was the case with hilly then it may be considered to be less aversive and more effective than continually running the dog down and giving it a good old fashioned scruffing

[chrokeva]

I have four dogs all of which have been completely collar conditioned. By this I mean the dogs were trained completely without the collar and then the collar was overlayed on known commands. It is a process and once a dog is properly collar conditioned it is not very common that you even need to use the collar. Imo a collar is best used to keep a young dog going right rather than correct a behaviour that has been allowed to become a problem.

Most negative comments on the collar are from people that have no idea how to use a collar or condition a dog to it properly. It would be nice if people became educated on the proper use before forming harsh opinions.

[Lloyd90]

I have four dogs all of which have been completely collar conditioned. By this I mean the dogs were trained completely without the collar and then the collar was overlayed on known commands. It is a process and once a dog is properly collar conditioned it is not very common that you even need to use the collar. Imo a collar is best used to keep a young dog going right rather than correct a behaviour that has been allowed to become a problem.

Most negative comments on the collar are from people that have no idea how to use a collar or condition a dog to it properly. It would be nice if people became educated on the proper use before forming harsh opinions.

Where did you learn that?

[chrokeva]

I have four dogs all of which have been completely collar conditioned. By this I mean the dogs were trained completely without the collar and then the collar was overlayed on known commands. It is a process and once a dog is properly collar conditioned it is not very common that you even need to use the collar. Imo a collar is best used to keep a young dog going right rather than correct a behaviour that has been allowed to become a problem.

Most negative comments on the collar are from people that have no idea how to use a collar or condition a dog to it properly. It would be nice if people became educated on the proper use before forming harsh opinions.

Where did you learn that?

I learned from a professional trainer.

[Naj]

But it’s not so simple, straightforward or pain free as is often made out. Collar conditioning sounds pretty benign but it’s still routinely shocking the pup, even if at a low level. And we all know that when the blood is up low level of any correction no longer has any effect, so it all becomes a bit hit and miss. I was following an American pro trainer who posted a series of videos showing how he trained a young, collar conditioned, retriever for field trials. He constantly misjudged the shock level and more often than not was either too high or too low. We knew this because he mentioned it every time it happened, and it happened a lot right through each training video. I’ve used e collars myself in the past and wouldn’t entirely discount them when it comes to stock proofing, but as with all punishments my experience showed that you tend to get lazy and you also become inured to the effect they’re having in the dog.

Naj