Got a little wee cocker here that has recently been introduced to game, built up from winged dummys, partridge and recently phesants.
I find he struggles with cock phesants however hes only around 8 months, um curious if hes likely to get any bigger specifically his head as he only has a little pee head
Over time I'm sure he will get the hang of how to carry them etc but I'm use to a 24kg springer jumping dry stone walls with a bird in his gob, do cockers generally struggle at first?
They struggle with big cock Pheasants until the get the hang of them. My first Cocker was hilarious with her first running cock, at one stage she held it by the wing with it walking alongside her, then by the neck again with its feet on the ground. She eventually got a grip on it and never looked back. Its something they have to learn for themselves.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Yes, they have a remarkable power to weight ratio and just need to figure out how best to do it for themselves. But there’s a lot of hype around cockers and it can’t make up for physical limitations. Short legged dogs are always going to struggle a bit with big, lively birds and in certain cover. They’ll get the job done but you can’t get away from the fact that sometimes a bigger dog will be at an advantage over a smaller one. At 8 months your pup will probably be roughly as big as it’s going to get. Pups of this age thicken out as they mature but they don’t make much more in the way of height.
My experience with my only cocker has confirmed Naj and Judy's advice. I started rough shooting with him when he was about 9 months. At first I was very concerned about the quality of his mouth (I think this was the subject of my first post on this forum). He really seemed to struggle handling big pheasants and sometimes damaged skin and flesh. However this disappeared as he gained experience and confidence. By the time he had handled about a dozen big birds he had it all figured out. In fact I enjoyed a very pleasant day with him yesterday which included a big lively cock-bird which he handled and carried as well as any Lab could.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
My question: is it really a concern about the size of a dog when it comes to rough shooting?
Now that I have a few seasons hunting over my springer, I see the retrieve less complicated. Hunting here for grouse the best spots are young wood with undergrowth. When a bird is dropped, I send the dog and immediately start walking up to the spot. Typically, I will meet the dog returning at no more than 20 yards or so. Since, I’m more interested in getting a struggling bird in hand ASAP my criteria for giving directions while standing still have been transcended by practical conditions and concerns.
newf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:47 pm
My question: is it really a concern about the size of a dog when it comes to rough shooting?
An interesting question and a bit "not how big the dog in the fight but how big the fight in the dog" a lot of the time when hunting hard cover but mine often have to swim rivers for retrieves and if the river is pushing through a smaller dog does seem to be at a disadvantage, I also shoot a marsh and have seen a couple of cockers and once a small springer carried back to the vehicles in very cold conditions as they just weren't able to cope with being in cold water for relatively long periods as well as a bigger springer could.
I have a small springer to help her balance large birds I used a large dummy thrown over a hurdle about 2ft high in an ally way at first she held the dummy at the end so it was dangling from her mouth so when she jumped the hurdle the dummy hit the crossbar after a few sessions she has learnt to balance the dummy and clear the hurdle this may help .
Seeing some of the ft trial cockers they are very very small, though I know of some larger ones the same size as our springers. However in general they seem to be very fine boned now, through inbreeding no doubt.
A well schooled dog will open doors, a poor one closes them quickly.
newf wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2019 1:47 pm
My question: is it really a concern about the size of a dog when it comes to rough shooting?
Now that I have a few seasons hunting over my springer, I see the retrieve less complicated. Hunting here for grouse the best spots are young wood with undergrowth. When a bird is dropped, I send the dog and immediately start walking up to the spot. Typically, I will meet the dog returning at no more than 20 yards or so. Since, I’m more interested in getting a struggling bird in hand ASAP my criteria for giving directions while standing still have been transcended by practical conditions and concerns.
I agree on the simplicity of retrieves, Newf, when (rough) shooting over a dog. However, having hunted and shot over springers and cockers I think that size does count. Short legged cockers really struggle on cover like heather and small cockers (and springers) can have the stuffing knocked out of them when struggling through heavy cover, like punishing bramble, all day long. Small and short legged dogs are also at a disadvantage when retrieving in heavy cover, where a bigger dog can reach down from above to lift a bird and have the length of leg to bound out of the cover whereas a smaller dog has to push its way through and then push the bird back through ahead of it, which is very tiring. I know that small cockers tend to wriggle along tracks and through gaps but birds don’t always fall so conveniently. And as NickH points out, small dogs lose body heat quicker than large dogs and so can suffer in wet conditions. Yes, cockers can do it all ( and I’m a great fan of the breed), but sometimes bigger is better.
