Dropping bird

[newf]

I think it is important to distinguish between "retrieving" problems and "delivery" problems. If a springer or retriever had no desire to go out and seek out a fallen bird I might be inclined to follow Erlandson's solution (more likely move it on as a pet). However if the dog enthusiastically goes out to seek the bird and picks it but does not deliver it well there are lots of cures for that. No retrieving desire is a genetic problem, poor delivery is just a training issue.

Totally agree with this assessment.

[newf]

I have no idea why or even when it started but i believe it is the beginning of a learned behaviour and has become a sort of ritual for her. Whistling her on the return seems to do the trick and i expect that after a while i will be able to drop it , pardon the pun

IPS, what do you mean by it’s a learned behavior? A dog can be shown what to do but that, in itself, doesn’t make it reliable. If putting it down and adjusting or investigating is reinforcing then a clean delivery will be at the dog’s discretion.

[westcountry]

I think it is important to distinguish between "retrieving" problems and "delivery" problems. If a springer or retriever had no desire to go out and seek out a fallen bird I might be inclined to follow Erlandson's solution (more likely move it on as a pet). However if the dog enthusiastically goes out to seek the bird and picks it but does not deliver it well there are lots of cures for that. No retrieving desire is a genetic problem, poor delivery is just a training issue.

Totally agree with the delivery being a training issue. Amazing though how many pro trainers move dogs on rather than spend time fixing it.

[Springfield Pointers]

...but i believe it is the beginning of a learned behaviour...

That's called "training", mate.

[Springcopse spaniels]

I wouldn't tolerate sloppy retrieving if the dog was once good at delivery to hand.

You say you wouldnt tolerate it and I totally agree. But what would you do to rectify it? Or would you just move the dog on?
I have had so many stories of spaniels with retrieving problems of late. Dogs being moved on as so called non retrievers. Its quite alarming, either there is a fault in the breeding of spaniels or there is a problem with trainers not being able to teach the basic retrieve.

I have and train all my dogs, I dont move them on just because of a slight fault or general lack of training. My early spaniel was a very much an indifferent retriever given his high prey and hunt drive, occasionally blinked retrieves and wasnt so keen as he didn't see the benefit to him. I was shown how to train this out of him and whilst the methodologie was slow the exercise was spot on for him. Moving dogs on for a simple, but timely training exercise to rectify simply shows the standard that some "trainers" cant be arsed to deal with and instead blame the dog and move it on.

[ips]

Had two retrieves today sweeping up after drives both delivered to hand with no dropping, cant actually remember if i whistled her in or not though

[CockerCanuck]

I have been out a couple of times with my Cocker since this topic started. I originally said I occasionally see him do the same as Ips's Eze. It has not been a big problem for me but I decided to pay more attention. Of course now he won't do it. Every bird has been quickly and directly to hand. I really think he knows when I am paying attention and he better behave and when I am not and he can get away with thumbing his nose at me. The little monster

[ips]

I have been out a couple of times with my Cocker since this topic started. I originally said I occasionally see him do the same as Ips's Eze. It has not been a big problem for me but I decided to pay more attention. Of course now he won't do it. Every bird has been quickly and directly to hand. I really think he knows when I am paying attention and he better behave and when I am not and he can get away with thumbing his nose at me. The little monster

Um, you may be onto something CC maybe its simply that they know when and what we will tolerate....or not as the case maybe i know for certain that when working her if she turns to check in and she doesnt catch my eye she assumes i am not "with her" and will use her own discretion

[Naj]

I have been out a couple of times with my Cocker since this topic started. I originally said I occasionally see him do the same as Ips's Eze. It has not been a big problem for me but I decided to pay more attention. Of course now he won't do it. Every bird has been quickly and directly to hand. I really think he knows when I am paying attention and he better behave and when I am not and he can get away with thumbing his nose at me. The little monster

Um, you may be onto something CC maybe its simply that they know when and what we will tolerate....or not as the case maybe i know for certain that when working her if she turns to check in and she doesnt catch my eye she assumes i am not "with her" and will use her own discretion

Yeah, cos that’s what you’ve trained. Don’t blame the dog.

[ips]

I have been out a couple of times with my Cocker since this topic started. I originally said I occasionally see him do the same as Ips's Eze. It has not been a big problem for me but I decided to pay more attention. Of course now he won't do it. Every bird has been quickly and directly to hand. I really think he knows when I am paying attention and he better behave and when I am not and he can get away with thumbing his nose at me. The little monster

Um, you may be onto something CC maybe its simply that they know when and what we will tolerate....or not as the case maybe i know for certain that when working her if she turns to check in and she doesnt catch my eye she assumes i am not "with her" and will use her own discretion

Yeah, cos that’s what you’ve trained. Don’t blame the dog.

So, your saying that i have inadvertently trained her to do her own thing if i dont catch her eye when she checks in