Stop whistle at a distance.

[ESS]

Hi any tips to teach my dog stop on the whistle at a distance?
Hes a 15month old cocker he has a sharp stop when hunting and can be stopped on his way out fir a retreive within close proximety of me.
Ive only tried stopping him at a distance twice and both times didnt stop but it was where the blind retreive was and hes retreive mad.
Whats the best way of introducing the stop at a distance?
I was wondering if this is where place boards come in handy? Thanks

[newf]

Set up a permanent blind and get the dog familiar with it after many repetitions. Once the dog is confident, then sit the dog up and walk out 15 yards for starters and toss one or two balls or dummies slightly off line to the blind and make sure the dog sees the distractions. Before returning to the dog, pick up the marked retrieves. Go back to the dog and send him for the blind, chances are great, he'll stop short and hunt for the picked ones, give him a spell and then blow the stop. He'll be more compliant upon finding nothing; so, when he gives you his attention, send him back for the blind. From there, you can gradually more out the distractions to 30- 50 yards.

Later, if you're really brave and can see a need for it, you can leave the distraction dummies in place and then send the dog for the blind. However, it requires that the above is well conditioned and a "leave command" is taught well. How well? To the point, that if the dog picks the distraction, he will obey "leave it" and drop the distraction dummy and go for the intended target, the blind. I train for it, because in jump shooting ducks it has its benefits. Saying that, some believe it to be over training or problems could develop from a dog that is not retrieve keen. If I had such a dog, then I would not train for it...sage advice then rings true: 'train the dog you have'.

[munstyman]

All good advice from newf as usual, however I prefer the simple approach of just teach the stop whistle to mean stop ( And don't go beyond the dogs training by setting it up to fail ) And no training the stop at a distance is not the use of place boards.

[Nickheref]

All good advice from newf as usual, however I prefer the simple approach of just teach the stop whistle to mean stop ( And don't go beyond the dogs training by setting it up to fail ) And no training the stop at a distance is not the use of place boards.

I am with this! If the dog won't stop for a dummy he sure as well won't when a bird is in the equation. I work on the stop on its own initially until I have complete (or as much as you can have ) confidence that it will work , to my mind the more times the stop fails when incorporating it into other parts of training the more likely it is to fail.

[Naj]

I agree. Sounds like you’ve made too big a jump on the Distance element. Build confidence in the stop whistle closer in and without the distraction of the retrieve and then gradually Increase distance and distraction. I’d not be including any retrieves in that until I had a reliable stop. I do most of my stop work at exercise.

ESS mentions that the dog didn’t stop because it was where the blind retrieve was. I’ve seen this u tube clip of a trainer stopping his dog when on top of the dummy and training it to spit but that style of training isn’t for me. Outside of the three card trick and T lessons (whatever they’re called these days ) used to train the basics of handling I wouldn’t gratuitously stop a dog on a blind ‘just because’. I get it into the area and leave it to it unless it starts too far and I have to stop it and handle it back in. If the dog winded the retrieve and ignored the stop because of it then that would be my mistake for not spotting it and I’d let it go.

Naj

[crackerd]

Eclectic collar use would be my recommendation. Careful to check the spelling there, Naj, before sallying forth with anything vituperative.

But we do agree that distance erodes control - and munsty has it down with the fundamental stop or sit at very short range.

On "just because" a big difference of opinion because "just because" instills an "expect to comply at any time" mentality and you can't do that without repetitions, which is where the "just because" is crucial in developing consistency. Well, crucial over here, anyhow - and that would be for the precursor to the T, what we acronymize as FTP (force to pile).

As it happens I'm working a young toller through that drill now and into next week when the T or perhaps TT (double T) will start. Please revert back to first three words in this post. Q: How do you stop a dog on the way out, at full gallop, as it's being "forced" to go and yet you're asking the dog to do something totally diametric to what it's done for a week, i.e., "sit (stop) to the whistle?" A. You tie a light check cord through a flat collarr (eclectic collar use), put leather gloves on, get a death grip on the check chord, cue the dog at your side with "Dead bird..." send on "Back!", then blast the stop whistle for all it's worth, and dig in your feet and brace for impact when the dog has gone roughly 10 yards or maybe 1/7th of the way toward the pile of dummies.

U-turn and attendant possible separated shoulder expected to follow immediately, but usually not, and the transition to stop through eclectic collar use after the e-collar is applied at low level for "forcing" can be fairly seamless and makes a lasting impression on the dog. (And yes, the dog is wearing two collars at this time, elect- and eclect-, because you don't want to risk blowing out the collar unit with G-Force tug on the check chord to get the dog to stop.) So it went, or has gone so far into our "basics" with this amped-up toller - and I expect same when the T or TT start next week. But the owner will need to get way better coordinating his whistle timing and the dog's response for it to be anything close the precision handling that I am confident this dog is capable of.

I agree. Sounds like you’ve made too big a jump on the Distance element. Build confidence in the stop whistle closer in and without the distraction of the retrieve and then gradually Increase distance and distraction. I’d not be including any retrieves in that until I had a reliable stop. I do most of my stop work at exercise.

ESS mentions that the dog didn’t stop because it was where the blind retrieve was. I’ve seen this u tube clip of a trainer stopping his dog when on top of the dummy and training it to spit but that style of training isn’t for me. Outside of the three card trick and T lessons (whatever they’re called these days ) used to train the basics of handling I wouldn’t gratuitously stop a dog on a blind ‘just because’. I get it into the area and leave it to it unless it starts too far and I have to stop it and handle it back in. If the dog winded the retrieve and ignored the stop because of it then that would be my mistake for not spotting it and I’d let it go.

MG

[Contender]

I teach this when they're puppies: blow the 'stop' whistle, the puppy will automatically look at you to see what on earth was that (for 2 secs so you have to be quick) and then I chuck a ball. Initially, I throw the ball as soon as the dog looks at me and pay attention, then I'll extend the time before throwing the ball which creates a natural wait and pay full attention to me waiting for 'something interesting/fun' to happen. If the dog associate the 'stop' whistle with you + something interesting to happen, then it'll soon have a very solid stop on the whistle. Super easy to teach this way with a tennis ball or small dummy.

You can use this method with an older dog but you'll have to start somewhere with little or no distractions so you're the most interesting thing there, then simply build it up and it'll very soon work when hunting or other situations.

Natasha

[crackerd]

I teach this when they're puppies: blow the 'stop' whistle, the puppy will automatically look at you to see what on earth was that (for 2 secs so you have to be quick) and then I chuck a ball. Initially, I throw the ball as soon as the dog looks at me and pay attention, then I'll extend the time before throwing the ball which creates a natural wait and pay full attention to me waiting for 'something interesting/fun' to happen. If the dog associate the 'stop' whistle with you + something interesting to happen, then it'll soon have a very solid stop on the whistle. Super easy to teach this way with a tennis ball or small dummy.

You can use this method with an older dog but you'll have to start somewhere with little or no distractions so you're the most interesting thing there, then simply build it up and it'll very soon work when hunting or other situations.

[Naj]

I’m with Natasha on this. No need to metaphorically pull a dog’s head from it’s shoulders, especially when you’re effectively punishing it for something you’ve already taught it to do. These are essentially simple pattern games and easy to train without harsh measures just, as always, through repetition of the right stuff.

Naj

[crackerd]

I’m with Natasha on this. No need to metaphorically pull a dog’s head from it’s shoulders, especially when you’re effectively punishing it for something you’ve already taught it to do. These are essentially simple pattern games and easy to train without harsh measures just, as always, through repetition of the right stuff.

Elaborate on your "you're effectively punishing it for something you've already taught it to do," Naj.

MG