Steadiness?

[Naj]

Training aspirations and seriousness apart, I shoot over some pretty wild ground but I’d love to shoot ptarmigan over my dogs on country like that whether they were steady or not.

Naj

[David]

Not everything that gets shot fly's..... You'll not put many rabbits in the pot when the dog's a yard behind it...

[Naj]

Not everything that gets shot fly's..... You'll not put many rabbits in the pot when the dog's a yard behind it...

Used to rabbit shoot with a pal many years ago whose dog thought it was in the Waterloo cup, as did many dogs back in the day, and he rarely missed a shot because of his dog’s chasing antics. I’ve shot a lot of rabbits over steady dogs myself since then and even in light cover it wouldn’t make a deal of difference if the dogs didn’t stop on flush. In fact when hunting through bushes and brambles I’d expect even a steady dog to push a rabbit until it broke onto open ground.

Naj

[newf]

As to rabbits, I do allow my dog to push a rabbit out into the opening, but once there, I blow the stop, so I can safely take the shot.

As to the video, common sense yells: a chasing dog is both unsafe and a nuisance. Just think, that is one dog, say you had two, it would be chaos and every dog for themselves.

I think the true motivation behind this tolerate thinking is the ideology. In the 'positive' circles, correction is bad, no matter, if the behavior is dangerous for either the dog or others, it is still labeled bad. So, since steadying a dog reliably requires the skillful use of both positive and negative consequences, the positive crowd have deemed it bad.

So, what to do when your ideology cuts out half your tools? Best thing, especially in the face of competing rewards is to radically change your training model so you sort(a) get what you want: recall, hell no, drifts back; sit/stay, hell no, hovers; steady to mark, hell no, marks on the run; retrieve, hell no, shows me where the bird dropped; delivers to hand, hell no, mouths and spits. If you picked the latter of the choices, then I'd say, you better be light hearted in order to keep a spring in your step while out hunting.

[Naj]

Haven’t a clue as to what ‘crowd’ these guys belong to, Newf, but suspect it’s an enjoy your hunting with dog crowd. And there are plenty of correctional trainers in the States and elsewhere who don’t think steadiness a good thing to train in a hunting dog. You’ll surely know that there are three or four levels of steadiness that pro trainers offer to their clients. As to your ‘positive’ crowd, there are plenty of folk training to high standards, and steadiness, without the use of your idea of ‘correctional’ negatives.

Naj

[WGD]

I couldn't really care less, dogs and handlers are enjoying themselves and nobody was hurt.

Only time this sort of thing gets my goat is when my dogs work hard to produce game and every other dog in the line chases or run in on the retrieve.

[David]

Not everything that gets shot fly's..... You'll not put many rabbits in the pot when the dog's a yard behind it...

Used to rabbit shoot with a pal many years ago whose dog thought it was in the Waterloo cup, as did many dogs back in the day, and he rarely missed a shot because of his dog’s chasing antics. I’ve shot a lot of rabbits over steady dogs myself since then and even in light cover it wouldn’t make a deal of difference if the dogs didn’t stop on flush. In fact when hunting through bushes and brambles I’d expect even a steady dog to push a rabbit until it broke onto open ground.

Naj

Though you'd have an answer.

So you'd pull the trigger with a dog a yard behind it.

[Naj]

WGD .. I‘d agree that on a more organised shoot you might want a different level of control, and might well be frustrated by other handlers lack of similar control. These guys will be out all on their own in the mountains and shooting over their own dogs so nobody else to upset or get in the way.

David, no I wouldn’t take an unsafe shot nor would I recommend anyone else to, but I’ve seen plenty of guns shoot rabbits over their unsteady dogs in the past and there’s usually some opportunity for a safe shot, especially when a rabbit is dodging in and out of light cover and a dog becomes unsighted.

[CockerCanuck]

Well I shoot over pretty wild ground on birds not dissimilar to these. I am not hung up on 100% butt locked to the ground steadiness. However I hate a dog that chases. A lot of time our wild grouse and woodcock when cleanly missed don't really fly very far and you can mark where they landed. With a steady dog you have a very good chance of moving in and getting a second chance. With a wild chaser they run ahead put them up again and maybe even a third time as they disappear over the horizon.

[newf]

I 've experienced the same as you CC. A missed bird can sometimes be found again. A running dog will either push it further or if it is hiding, unnerve it to take flight once again. Similarly, when hunting rabbits, on wood's roads or marsh edges a fleeing rabbit presents a narrow window for a shot. The dog can be unseen and too close for comfort.