It was for me. It felt like pup and I were cooperating in a great game, and I would like a repetition of that feeling.
We could just run down the lane......
It that rain? Nah, hardly drizzle....
The question is, how do you reward heeling, or that sense of the two of you cooperating in that great game, if you’re not using edible rewards? People say they use praise instead, and that’s great IF (and that’s a big IF) the dog finds praise rewarding in the context of heeling, but more often than not you find that they’re also using corrections. Making access to a more favourable behaviour (retrieving) contingent upon the performance of a less favourable behaviour (heeling) as you did with the memory retrieve is a well known technique (Google Premack) but isn’t always feasible. The problem with training a Heel as you ‘walk to the park’ is that the dog has duration, distance and distraction suddenly dumped upon it rather than introduced incrementally, as we would when training anything else. It’s common to get around this by training an interim loose leash or ‘pull’ command so you can work on Heel separately. Or just drive there for the time being. But in adding distance and duration to Heeling when using rewards one of the best ways is to use the 300 Pecks technique, (Google it) where you start by rewarding on every step you make, then when your dog has the hang of that reward on every second step, then progress to every third, step, fourth step etc. As you progress, when things go wrong, which they will, you start back at the beginning, rewarding on every step, and continue as before until you’re consistently rewarding once every 300 steps - you’ll get the gist.
Premak, thank you Naj, that's brilliant. It's just possible that my new heelwork strategy might fit within that principle.
I spent a long time trying to train loose lead walking with something similar to the 300pecks. She could just about manage to keep a loose lead for a short while on boring roads. I also tried turning when she pulled and praising or rewarding the momentary loose lead.
In both cases she still lunged at the least distraction and tended to ignore the treat in favour of sniffing the pavement.
She now has a slip lead twisted over her nose. If she pulls I tell her to sit. I think she quite likes sitting (little nose twitches all the time), but we don't get very far.
When she has walked at heel for a short while without pulling, I tell her to sit and then she gets to 'Sniff', which means walking with a loose lead and her nose on the ground. The lane is very sniffy (birds and dogs) so I think this is rewarding for my pup. In this way we can get right down the lane (footpath) to all the nice fields. More heel and less sniff on the way back.
Surprisingly, the alternation in walk behaviour seems to be more effective at pull prevention than 'Sniff' alone. It does feel a bit like we are playing a game, and must look pretty silly. I hope I am not making 'heel' even more unfavourable.
I would like to get the loop off her nose asap, but I am aware that many adult dogs still tow their owners and I really don't want that.
It’s easy to be overwhelmed or impressed for that matter by miles of complicated jargon about such things as the Premack principle, differential reinforcement strategies(DRO), pecking technique and the like. Is it necessary, I think not, because it’s all based on a false pretence. Scientific it is not because it ignores the real world and ignores and distorts sound principles of behavior. Why? It is an ideology.
I like his videos, especially the one where he says puppy class might do more harm than good. That helped me a lot when I had to abandon taking my pup rather quickly, when she just couldn't cope with the excitement. However, she did learn to use her lead as a tug toy (tug wasn't/isn't an allowed game). That was a bit tedious.
On a practical note I find routine a great pup management strategy. I guess there's a supportive behavioural theory.
Kibble wrote: ↑Mon Jan 10, 2022 5:27 pm
I like his videos, especially the one where he says puppy class might do more harm than good. That helped me a lot when I had to abandon taking my pup rather quickly, when she just couldn't cope with the excitement. However, she did learn to use her lead as a tug toy (tug wasn't/isn't an allowed game). That was a bit tedious.
On a practical note I find routine a great pup management strategy. I guess there's a supportive behavioural theory.
Routines and rituals is what most of my training revolves around these days. A more popular term is Patterns. It’s based on the fact that dogs naturally learn in context so teach things in context from the get go. Most of the stuff we do with them can be broken down in to routines with little rituals within those routines.
Thank you. I looked up Patterns and the info I found was about micro level. I meant the more macro stuff like dinner at dinner time / crate (pup) /nap (?) / walk / other stuff etc.
More recently usual field / walk up the hedge / blind retrieve where it was three days ago. I have found this keeps her with me and deters zooming off across the field.
There is a a lot of info about socialisation to new places. Just sayin I find interspersing new and same old calming for excitable pup and novice trainer (me). Perhaps this is too obvious to mention.
However, habit does raise expectations. Yesterday pup had just completed a nice long memory retrieve, and was all fired up for a repeat, when I noticed a dog across the field was working round in our direction. I set off to avoid and called my pup. She saw the other dog, but after a couple of seconds bounced over to me, jumped up and bit my leg. I thought we were past that.
So, reward for coming to me or punishment for jumping and biting : that is the question.
In the end I decided the involuntary inrush of breath (mine on being bit) would have to do for punishment and carried on with the rest of our walk, while planning more heel work.
newf wrote: ↑Wed Jan 12, 2022 2:56 pm
Accept the return in this case and ignore the nip. Handle the nipping in another excitable situation that won’t confuse what’s being corrected.
Thanks.
When pup was tiny and attached to my heels rather too often and too literally, any yelping (mine) or similar just added to the excitement. No was meaningless.
However, she noticed the sound of an nvoluntary inrush of breath and stopped long enough to accept an alternative chew item.
Time out was the only thing that had an effect. Unfortunately it cost the kitchen lino, but the lino wasn't that nice anyway.
