It's all about the training!

[Kibble]

Thanks Judy
It would be great if 'leave it' was beginning to sink in to this bold and know it all little dog. I have been helped by a jellyfish and a not quite dead gannet in persuading the that my 'leave it' advice might have merit. She has left a few dead things recently fingers crossed .
I think she has also worked out that pigeon feathers don't taste that nice after all.

Your suggested variation on seek back / memory is ace. It would be a great reward for steadiness. I am now working on steadiness with renewed effort. Mia is quite happy to be staked as part of this lesson, which seems a bit odd, but if it helps
Mia delights in led memory retrieves, to the extent that the appearance of the lead in the middle of an otherwise not too interesting field is bizarrely exciting. Too exciting sometimes. I don't know how she remembers where the dummy landed or how much scent helps. That will be interesting for me as well, both in marking where it landed and thinking about wind direction for .

[Kibble]

After a stressful Friday beach walk (other people and their dogs), I knew the beach wouldn't be the best weekend option. So, in light of recent forum advice I decided to take Mia to the moors - for a walk with minimal nagging. Many thanks for the insight.

On Sunday, one very happy little dog flushed eight game birds. All were flushed quite close to me and certainly within range, if I were shooting, which of course I am not. I don't think shoots use this part of the moors anyway.

I started walking by an old heather covered stone dyke. This was to avoid the sheep, that were sat on the track, and because the ground stays wet by the dyke. Very soon two pheasants went up. Mia ran a about a bit, clearing the ground and another two went up. It occurs to me that clearing the ground has hunting merit. All I have to do now is train Mia to flush, stop, wait, and only hunt on when told!

We got back to the track, past the sheep, and I called Mia in. A minute later I released her and soon four game birds went up together. These weren't pheasants. There is a ditch by the track, so I maybe the birds come for the water.
I can accept that Mia won't be as obviously engaged with me in this environment as she is elsewhere, at least not yet. However, she knows where I am, seems to understand about sheep, and she came back quickly when called at the gate.

Today I took her back to the coast, just to check the engagement I have worked hard to achieve hadn't gone. It was fine.

[CockerCanuck]

Sounds like Mia is training you to be more confident in your relationship with her and the great strides you have made in working with her.

I think an under appreciated word in gundog training is “Trust”. To learn from you the dog must first trust you but at a certain point you must also learn to trust the dog. When it’s mutual you have reached doggy Nirvana

[Nickheref]

Yes, you have to learn to give them a bit of space, one of the worrying things with a youngster is when out and there is a sudden injection of pace in thick cover, you don't know what they have winded but they obviously think something is there and deal with whatever happens next accordingly.

[Kibble]

Many thanks CC and Nick
I am now trying more relaxed walks in different environments with Mia. Whether or not I can ever train Mia well enough to work her is another matter. This time last year I couldn't trust her and I am slowly getting the trust back.

When she was a young puppy, until about 15 months old, I could usually keep her fairly close on a walk with active engagement effort. With hindsight more steadiness training might have been good.
I have not completely given up on working Mia, but for now I am just enjoying what control I have with her.

I have learnt that heather and bracken are not conducive to game bird chasing. Once flushed the birds are away. This makes walking on these moors more pleasant than expected.

[Nickheref]

I have learnt that heather and bracken are not conducive to game bird chasing. Once flushed the birds are away. This makes walking on these moors more pleasant than expected.

Perhaps she has learnt that she cannot catch them! I see some dogs who will chase game almost out of sight for a very long way (usually cockers but not always) which I do not put down as excessive prey drive more lack of brain activity! I would normally expect a young dog to quickly learn it cannot catch them and go back to hunting to try and find another rather than single mindedly keep going after one into the distance but if it looked like it was going to then the stop whistle would come into play!!

[Kibble]

That's interesting Nick, thanks.I hope she is learning. I have been attempting to stop her trying to chase pigeons when she is on a lead. It can be any combination of 'lunge, flush, ignore, watch, and then sit, look at me, treat'. I might have misinterpreted Naj's suggestion, but I think getting a sit in there is good.

The other day Mia flushed a pheasant from the verge of the coastal path and cleared the patch, but didn't chase over the field after it. As we walked on she looked over the wall a few times and I used the turn whistle effectively!
You could hear pheasants across the field so to be safe I took her onto the beach at the next gate. As expected she then ran a huge loop and set up a few sand birds. She doesn't bother chasing sand birds much, so I interpreted this as a need to run. I suppose I could have put her on the lead, but the beach exit was easier. No need for recall, she just ran a circle.

Most of the moor is heather, but there are swathes of tufty grass. Mia runs farther on the grassy stretches and I think it must be easier to follow a scent trail on grass than heather. That's what it looks like. She ran a good 50 metres off to the side today to flush a pheseant. (and barked).

I am fairly sure the not pheseant game birds she flushed last week were grouse. That's exciting.

I am in awe of people who can train their dogs to work close under such temptation.
On the other hand Mia gave me back her part chewed bone today. The other day she wanted to bury it.

[Kibble]

It is just over half a mile to the fields and woods where I like to take Mia walk/training. For now Mia needs to be on a lead for the walk to and from the fields.
I have noticed that on the way back she will sometimes pick up a stick or stone to carry. This is not ideal. Today I swapped the stone for a ball, which she proceeded to carry home. The advantage is that she walked nicely to heel all the way back. However, she wouldn't give me the ball back until we got to the house door, when she handed it over no problem.
Am I creating a new problem?

[Cass]

I think you're micromanaging that poor dog. Who cares if it wants to carry a stick? Sometimes you need to let a dog be a dog. After all, it's the best version of them. They're not meant to be robots.

[munstyman]

I think you're micromanaging that poor dog. Who cares if it wants to carry a stick? Sometimes you need to let a dog be a dog. After all, it's the best version of them. They're not meant to be robots.

OUCh !

Who of us as novices didn't `over think' our dog training and management? ( And some still do ) I can remember a certain chap with his first Cocker asking many questionable questions, so much so he was getting close to being called a troll But I think he turned out pretty well and just goes to prove there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid people who don't ask them and so remain stupid.
But yes kibble Cass does make two valid points . We can get sucked in to trying to over analyse every aspect of our dogs , and whilst it is interesting it can stop you seeing the basics of `it is just a dog being a dog' . Secondly, as Naj has pointed out many times dogs tend to think and learn in context, so why I can see how you maybe are concerned about the `not giving up the stick' as possessive behavior or effecting a delivery aspect of a retrieve. I doubt that the dog sees it that way. Even if it did, it is easily addressed in the training `field' ( context ) not on the walk home
Carrying things and/or holding something in its mouth is often a mental comfort substitute for a dog. It can also be a displacement behavior, but forget I mentioned that as that will likely get you over thinking it
There are times in training where you set about teaching the dog and there are times in training where you just let the dog teach you to be a better teacher by just watching `the dog being a dog' . I'm not sure if its old age making us wiser or in my case lazier that we move more towards the latter and in general our dogs tend to turn out just as good or better than those we applied the knowledge and `science' of the day to.