Cass wrote: ↑Fri Oct 06, 2023 11:42 pm
I think you're micromanaging that poor dog. Who cares if it wants to carry a stick? Sometimes you need to let a dog be a dog. After all, it's the best version of them. They're not meant to be robots.
OUCh !
Who of us as novices didn't `over think' our dog training and management? ( And some still do ) I can remember a certain chap with his first Cocker asking many questionable questions, so much so he was getting close to being called a troll But I think he turned out pretty well and just goes to prove there is no such thing as a stupid question only stupid people who don't ask them and so remain stupid.
But yes kibble Cass does make two valid points . We can get sucked in to trying to over analyse every aspect of our dogs , and whilst it is interesting it can stop you seeing the basics of `it is just a dog being a dog' . Secondly, as Naj has pointed out many times dogs tend to think and learn in context, so why I can see how you maybe are concerned about the `not giving up the stick' as possessive behavior or effecting a delivery aspect of a retrieve. I doubt that the dog sees it that way. Even if it did, it is easily addressed in the training `field' ( context ) not on the walk home
Carrying things and/or holding something in its mouth is often a mental comfort substitute for a dog. It can also be a displacement behavior, but forget I mentioned that as that will likely get you over thinking it
There are times in training where you set about teaching the dog and there are times in training where you just let the dog teach you to be a better teacher by just watching `the dog being a dog' . I'm not sure if its old age making us wiser or in my case lazier that we move more towards the latter and in general our dogs tend to turn out just as good or better than those we applied the knowledge and `science' of the day to.
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
Just an observation but generally I find bitches are more reluctant to hand over whatever prize they have picked up than dogs, who seem quite happy to give them to me if I ask, almost as a way of communicating with me.
Nickheref wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 7:50 am
Just an observation but generally I find bitches are more reluctant to hand over whatever prize they have picked up than dogs, who seem quite happy to give them to me if I ask, almost as a way of communicating with me.
This bitch pup I'm working on right now definitely matches your sentiments. Shot a grouse over the cocker yesterday and thought it would be a good opportunity to give the SM a retrieve. Almost had to get the jaws of life to get it out of her mouth
"If you train a young dog for momentum, precision will arrive. If you train for precision, demanding perfection, momentum will depart." - Rex Carr
Well, thank you Cass. Poor micromanaged dog (Mia) and I are on our hols in the Lake District. It is sunny. ☀ ☀, although the paths are streams.
As I see it, the time when you know nothing about a new endeavour is the perfect time for over thinking. Once you know a bit, you might almost unconsciously avoid those rookie mistakes and miss the learning opportunities. It's even better when knowledgeable experts are prepared to respond to stupid questions.
My stick question:
I was interested in why my dog wants to carry something home. I have seen her leave an exciting bit of dead creature on the way out and pick it up on the way back. It doesn't matter if she wants to carry a short! stick home (not so keen on stones), but I am trying to learn 'dog' as MM advises. My overthink 'dog' is that in her mind, we are returning from a hunt.
I had no idea how important context is, until I read forum advice. Of course I know my dog has a good memory for places.
It is six months since Mia has walked (run around) this particular Lake District fell path. Yesterday, as soon as we came to a certain gate (which I know, from when she was a puppy, leads to exciting gamey ground) she stopped and looked up hopefully. I don't have that much trust in her yet. We won't be going that way yet. A year ago we wouldn't be attempting this path at all.
I am trying not to nag on walks. If I stop she will check back and if I change direction, so will she. I guess this is the focus I need for now. As a puppy I trained her to come to me and move off the path if people, dogs or bikes were approaching. I hardly need to tell her now, she does this.
I can't resist the occasional stop whistle, just because. I didn't know I would ever be able to achieve a stop at distance. It's not 100%, but it feels so good.
Today, on a different and busy path she didn't need nagging.
I expect working/beating will require a different level of control, but it is a different context..
Kibble wrote: ↑Mon Oct 09, 2023 5:18 pm
I can't resist the occasional stop whistle, just because. I didn't know I would ever be able to achieve a stop at distance. It's not 100%, but it feels so good.
When I got my first pup in 1978 all I really wanted was a dog who would sit and stay, walk at heel and come when called as my dad's terriers didn't do any of that reliably! When I taught her to stop on the whistle I really thought I was getting somewhere.
My first gundog was my second dog, I won a few Working Tests with her, always off lead beating and then picking up, the following 35 years have seen a steady deterioration in my dogs...
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
As ips will know, there are lots of dogs on various lengths of leads in the Lake District, in places where you wouldn't expect an older dog to need a lead.
Being able to trust a dog is so important and we are getting there.
I think all the people and dogs are good practice for Mia to learn to ignore. Also there is less chance of game where it is busy. I called her off a deer early this morning so that was encouraging.
Other training is pretty much on hold, except for cafe/pub sitting which needs more work. I don't have a calm dog and I understand this is mostly my fault. It's a work in progress....
Evening kibble
We were in the lakes (again ) week before last, had a very wet and wild walk around Kent mere and also lake grassmere. It is surprising how many shoots there are even in the heart of the tourist hotspots
Were abouts was your gamey ground out of interest
Muddling along in the hope that one day it starts to make sense.
I absolutely sympathize Kibble I was once (long time ago) where you are now. It is a balancing act which is hard to understand without context and experience. You want to have enough control of the dog that it is not in danger or an irritant to others. But neither do you want a robot with no initiative of its own.
When you hit the sweet spot it’s a lot like going for an outing with a good human friend. They may occasionally do something that surprises you but generally you just trust your bond and most such surprises lead to more chuckles than anger.
I'm suspicious of people who don't like dogs, but I trust a dog when it doesn't like a person. - Bill Murray
( And some still do
early this morning so that was encouraging.