Increasing a young dogs passion for the dummy?.

[SoupDragon]

Got a 7-month-old lab bitch, have done some of the foundations work heel work sitting to whistle and recall, etc.
Very happy with her.

She's a nice bitch, quite sensitive but got plenty of energy. I tried to do a little retrieving introduction in the house garden etc with various articles, with very mixed results she's more focused on me than the retrieve and after 2 or 3 would either fail to pick up or spit it out on the return, no biggy she would be more interested in messing about with me, I wasn't concerned.

Ive also got a two-year-old lab ive started late but as come along well, I did hold conditioning with her because she would not return to hand, it was a breeze and totally changed the delivery. (I started a recent thread relating to her "Should I pause general retrieving work during hold conditioning.?", as this relates to a different bitch I started a new thread). Anyway, I thought I'd give the hold conditioning training a go with the pup, within 4 sessions she got the gist. I could give her a small dummy and she would walk to heel, sit/stay and I could call her to me and the delivery was excellent. I did a few simple retrieves today and I was happy with the way it went, she failed to pick up a couple, but if she picked them up she delivered to hand (although a few were held by the chord) she even went back for a seen drop and delivered it to hand. I'm happy I'm progressing. I would not say she has a passion for the dummy though, shes kind of picking the dummy for me rather than picking it for herself (kind of thing). I have no concerns I assume that passion will come as we do more with the dummies. Ive rambled

Instead of leaving well alone a few hours later, I took her out with the other bitch and just flung a few dummies without any structure got the dogs running and generally bombing around, I do this with the two-year-old bitch at the end of the sessions and she understands it's just fun and it does not bring bad habits into my other work, I didnt use the whistle when messing about. Is doing this with two dogs stupid, im just trying to get her more fond of the dummies through play?

[Judy]

I do it with my four! Completely different to proper training - I swing my arm around a few times and chant "ready, steady, GO!" when I throw the fun stuff. The younger ones all run in, the old girl has cottoned on to the fact I might just throw behind me instead of in front and stands watching carefully - she knows subterfuge is the only way she'll get her mouth round the ball, simply no longer fast enough.

[PRH]

I just switch from dummies to tennis balls - like drugs dogs my dogs see the ball as a reward at the end of a session. I also say 'that'll do' (pig) when we are done and it is down time / play time. Re your youngster doing 2 or 3 decent retrieves and then losing interest, if it was me I'd stop at 2 having given plenty of praise. What are you proving by getting the dog to do another retrieve?

It sounds like you've got some good foundations building, stick with it.

[Naj]

If I’ve got two dogs, usually a young dog and an older one in my case, I use fun retrieves to teach them to discriminate between when it’s their ‘ball’ and when it’s the other dog’s turn. This then morphs into play steadiness training. So at first I toss the ball to favour whichever dog I went to fetch it, calling their name just before I do so. With a pup/young dog it will be a few yards from them while the other dog is off on the other side and no chance of getting there before the pup. With the older dog I wang it out to its side knowing it will easily beat the pup to the fall. I put a little ritual into this routine by holding up the dummy first until they’re both focussing on me so I know I have their attention and they’re both in the game that’s about to start. The older dog usually knows this game but very quickly the pup learns that it’s a waste of time chasing after the ball when I don’t call its name and doesn’t even attempt it.

When they’ve both cottoned on to this, if you want, you can start developing it so that you delay calling their name, extending the duration between when you throw and when you call a dog to go for it. I like this approach because as the pup learns the ground rules of the game and you’re training it on its own you just have to show it the dummy and that becomes the cue for it to stop/sit while the dummy is thrown rather than having to give it a specific ‘command’. A thrown object becoming the cue to stop the pup while it’s on the move then becomes a natural progression to this. ‘Stop’ training without the ‘stop’.

[SoupDragon]

Thanks for the replies, some of my other ponderings were even answered without posting

[SoupDragon]

The bitch is switching her energy into the training now and returning plenty of dummies without a problem. The foundation work was done so that her sit stay was solid as was her heel work, I can sit her walk away throw the dummy, return, and send her. Steadiness is not a problem and she will return for a memory retrieve. She is only 7 months so I will progress slowly and ensure each step is learned well.

With both this young pup and the two-year-old bitch I've been training the key to the Pandora's box was the hold conditioning, it opened up all kinds of opportunities and took away so many obstacles. The pup only took 4 days and she was walking at heel with a bumper in her mouth, from sporadic picking up and often spitting indoors. If I go to the USA and bump into The Dog Bone Hunter I owe him a drink for his hold conditioning video. The advice I have had on the forum has guided me when I've been totally confused, long may it continue

[SoupDragon]

Happy with my progress with the young bitch (now 8mnths), she will do memory retrieves and is very steady, return to hand is spot on. She doesn't refuse a retrieve. I can directionally indicate which of 3 bumpers I want to be picked up and she does it. I don't want to do much more or make it more complicated because she is young and there is plenty of time. She has plenty of enthusiasm when out on walks and is very energetic. She is not slow when retrieving the dummy and learns quickly.

I suppose there is always a but, or I wouldn't be posting

I am also training a two-year bitch who did no Gundog training until 2 (although stay sit, and the heel was consistent from a young age). She loves it and is busting to do whatever I ask her.

The younger bitch does everything expected, but I don't get the feeling that she loves it, that her motivation is high. Kind of feel that she is doing it for me rather than for her. Is this because she is so young, I try to make it fun and break things up and praise her enthusiastically. I've never had a lab or trained a dog to do anything particularly technical so I suppose I'm asking for an overview on what to expect as the dog matures.