Well

Chat about anything off-topic
Post Reply
Judy
Co-Admin
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Kent

Well

Post by Judy »

Ain't it gone quiet? Can't anyone think of anything to disagree with Naj about?! :dance:

Been seriously hot here in the SE, thankfully a sea breeze every day during this current wave, proximity to water helps. I can gauge just how hot it is for the dogs as the young one only goes in when it's too hot to walk, she wades in swims round in an arc, gets out and carries on hunting. The old twit is in every chance she gets and doesn't want to come out regardless of the weather. It's only me that suffers outside but I get to sit in front of the fan when we get home. Having said which, one really hot day the small g*t picked up her bedding carried it to the front of the fan and made herself comfortable. Much muttering about who pays the bills in this house but she remained unmoved.

Cockers do have a brain well, some do.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Naj
Member
Posts: 7407
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:47 am

Re: Well

Post by Naj »

Lightweights! :lol:
Tone
New Member
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 19, 2024 10:18 am
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Well

Post by Tone »

Well I’ve had this to contend with over the summer
Not sure if anyone can see them or not?
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Cornishbird
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:52 pm

Re: Well

Post by Cornishbird »

Hello
Yes it’s been a tad hot, not sure I can manage another heatwave next week as well 🥵🥵 And definitely the young fella has had enough too! He goes out for a short sunbathing session, comes in and mostly flops all day! He’s not a swimmer either, so we don’t bother going to the nearby river for a swim - just the odd paddle.
After the last few sessions with our trainer I’ve come to the realisation that the young fella isn’t a gundog, isn’t that bothered by it and not likely going to be either. This has been a gradual build up, but becoming more noticeable as the months have gone on. So I need to process that and move onwards … heigh ho tiddly Pom, such is life!
Naj
Member
Posts: 7407
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:47 am

Re: Well

Post by Naj »

Cornishbird wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2026 12:09 pm Hello
Yes it’s been a tad hot, not sure I can manage another heatwave next week as well 🥵🥵 And definitely the young fella has had enough too! He goes out for a short sunbathing session, comes in and mostly flops all day! He’s not a swimmer either, so we don’t bother going to the nearby river for a swim - just the odd paddle.
After the last few sessions with our trainer I’ve come to the realisation that the young fella isn’t a gundog, isn’t that bothered by it and not likely going to be either. This has been a gradual build up, but becoming more noticeable as the months have gone on. So I need to process that and move onwards … heigh ho tiddly Pom, such is life!
If yours is a working bred cocker then I have no doubts that, given the right (game) experience, he would make a gundog. I’d be interested in hearing the reasons why you/your trainer don’t think he will make a gundog. :think:
Cornishbird
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:52 pm

Re: Well

Post by Cornishbird »

Hi Naj

To answer your question, I’ve added a bit of background as I think it probably helps explain where we’re at with him.

Yes, he’s a full WCS with a good pedigree. However, unexpectedly and unfortunately, we’ve needed to work through some health issues with him, which hindered our progress as it took quite some time to work out what was actually going on. Long story short, he’s now on long-term pain relief medication to help him.

He is a learner and does want to learn, and he’s come on leaps and bounds with our trainer since we started with them 3 years ago after switching trainers. He’s 4 now. But because of everything else we’ve had to deal with health-wise, we’ve always gone at his pace rather than pushing him beyond what he’s comfortable with. I train in between lessons 2–3 times a week and see the trainer once a month, sometimes more depending on diaries. We’ve also done various workshops etc., and we’ve tried different approaches along the way, so it’s certainly not through a lack of training or opportunity.

Even as a puppy, though, he wasn’t particularly keen on retrieving. I appreciate puppies develop at different rates and I certainly wouldn’t have expected him to be showing his full potential at that age!! But looking back, the lack of enthusiasm for retrieving was there quite early on, and that would have been pain related too.

I know human analogies aren’t always helpful, but what I see from him is very much, “Well, I’ve shown you I can do that, so that’s it, I’m done for the day.” And that’s on a good day! Otherwise it’s, “Oh, did you want me to retrieve that? You get it, I’m not bovvered!” 😂

Over the last few training lessons, the “I’m not bovvered” model of spaniel has mostly turned up. And it’s not just one particular aspect of the work. He doesn’t really show much natural hunting drive, there’s not a huge desire to retrieve, he doesn’t have great stamina for the work, and he generally isn’t particularly motivated to keep working. We’ve also factored in his pain issues, because that will be influencing all of those things to some degree for him.

So to answer your question, I think it’s really the combination of all of that that has led me and our trainer to consider whether we can actually progress any further with him, despite the family genes. It’s not that he can’t learn or do the exercises — he absolutely can, will show up when the “pay” is right, and he does want to learn — it’s that we haven’t seen the natural instinct, desire or enthusiasm behind the work that you’d expect from a working Cocker.

At our last training session we switched from regular dummies to a feather-covered dummy, and that actually got him enthusiastic for a short period. So we came away with some pheasant feathers to stick onto a dummy at home to see whether that makes a difference to his enthusiasm between lessons. Will keep you posted.

I’ve also only seen him really enthusiastic on a training ground once, which was last year. Unfortunately, the distance means that it’s probably not somewhere we could make a regular journey to, and the grounds are also used regularly for shoots, so the person whose grounds it is will be rather busy from this point onwards. Otherwise, I’d be really interested to see whether being in that sort of environment more regularly brought something different out in him. It’s another one of those things that makes me wonder whether there is something there that we just haven’t unlocked yet.

We haven’t actually reached the stage of proper game experience, and realistically I’m not sure we ever will. So, going back to the game experience point, we’ve not tested him in a game environment. I do sometimes wonder whether that means we’re missing something that might be there, particularly after seeing that little spark of enthusiasm with the feather dummy and on the different training ground. Maybe there is something that will click for him, and that’s what we’re trying to understand at the moment.

I think the hardest part for me is accepting that maybe what a dog is bred for and what they actually want to do aren’t necessarily the same thing. We’ve given him time, we’ve gone at his pace and we’ve worked through a lot with him health-wise, so I don’t feel we’ve given up easily. But equally, I do think there comes a point where I have to listen to what he’s showing me. I don’t want to keep pushing him towards something if he’s ultimately not enjoying it or showing any real desire to do it. I suppose that’s the bit I’m trying to work out now really — whether there is something there that we just haven’t unlocked yet, or whether this is simply him telling us that gundog work isn’t really his thing.
Naj
Member
Posts: 7407
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:47 am

Re: Well

Post by Naj »

Thanks, it’s tough when you have to negotiate health issues. I was talking to a guy this afternoon who has a promising trials dog but it uncharacteristically went a bit flat last year and lost its verve. Turns out it has some serious health problems with its spine and hips and he’ll have to retire it early or just do some light shooting over it.

I’d be very tempted to try your dog on game. The old adage … birds make the bird dog …. stands to this day. And, health issues aside, not all dogs are switched on by dummies and artificial constraints, especially cockers! :-D
Cornishbird
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:52 pm

Re: Well

Post by Cornishbird »

It certainly has been very tough, both negotiating and managing the health issues, as they impacted on so much more than we ever anticipated. I’d say it’s really only been in the last 12–18 months that all the hard work, and obviously the medication, has brought about such positive changes! The joy of having a puppy kind of passed us by, though there were certainly some moments — as my win jar will attest!

I feel for the person getting that news about their dog, especially when they’d seen so much potential in it. Fingers crossed for their dog long term.

I’ll have a chat with our trainer about the suggestion of trying him on birds. What you say about birds making the bird dog has actually made me wonder whether we’ve perhaps been looking at his training through too much of a dummy lens. Thinking back, as I said above, there have been a couple of times when we’ve really seen his enthusiasm come through, both in training and in different environments, so it’s certainly something worth exploring.

Will keep you posted 🙃
Judy
Co-Admin
Posts: 16727
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 10:33 pm
Location: Kent

Re: Well

Post by Judy »

For what it's worth my youngest Cocker is not interested in retrieving, apparently. I chucked her in the car with the olds and took her to the shoot, well; "Ooo can I retrieve a bird? Can I? Oh pleeeese" On her terms mind, if it's dead and visible pick it yerself, if it's a runner I'm ya girl. It's been quite difficult training the finer points while picking up but she's a fantastic game finder. Delivery can be a little suss from time to time but it's mostly to hand now. Retrieving from cover? The thicker the better, she goes into brambles for fun on shoot days.

Try him on warm game you may be surprised, just be sure you have good recall first. :lol:
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Nickheref
Member
Posts: 1907
Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:09 pm

Re: Well

Post by Nickheref »

I had a very "well bred" springer like that who liked runners but was very half hearted on dead game, to me it shows a fundamental problem with some breeding, retrieving dead game is a fairly basic requirement of a spaniel! The other thing is it makes it extremely difficult to get any form of steadiness as if they are not interested then they are rock steady but out of control if they actually want to do it. It is rather hard to get 5 runners in a training session! Not difficult to chuck 5 dummies!!
Post Reply