Need help with 9 month Lab no retrieve drive outside.

[newf]

Give up the treats…they’re obviously working against you. It takes some understanding and good observation to see what one is reinforcing. As you say, work intuitively with the fur skin ball, tug and following you along walks, if possible, free from restraint. If not, a long light tether that can be dragged through light cover. You’ll be doing something together which is bond forming. Note: walking through woods and field with a dog is training…just change direction frequently.

[Lola Brewer]

Okay good ideas! The plan now is to tease her with it, make her want to keep it, build drive for wanting it. Then making it the most fun thing training. Hopefully she isnt expecting the treats the whole time we go train in the park next as that could make it a bit harder to reinforce good behaviour. I think I'd still use the treats for her looking at me when other dogs are close by (the locals in my park do not care for dog training so I try go off peak hours).
Yes the walking and changing directions has been a fun and easy one to do!!

Okay, well I am feeling more confident! Thanks for the help newf!!

[Naj]

Hi, just an observation, but for a dog to go from being keen on retrieving to feigning they have no interest in it and are more interested in some supposedly interesting ground scent suggests that they are showing displacement behaviour, or ‚blinking’ the retrieve, as we used to call it. This is invariably a reaction to pressure, perhaps through the steadiness process, or simply a sensitive dog responding to your frustration. If you like using food rewards then clicker retrieve could fix this (google it, because it’s a bit more involved than can be covered on a forum), but other than that I agree with my learned friends.

[Lola Brewer]

Hey! Thanks for the reply. Now you say it I think this could also be it. I think this mixed with doing hunting dried lungs on the grass ahaha. Lot of learning the hard way! But today I decided with all training I’d be less firm and let her have fun, as with tug, I’d have her drop every time and then restart. But I let her win a bunch and she got way more involved and excited.
I think shall try a few sessions of letting her run in and build her drive on concrete (she ran in today for a retrieve! Yay!) and then just fix the messiness once the drive is back and once she realises it’s fun!

Other than clicker retrieving can you point me to more places where I can learn about displacement behaviour or blinkin?

Thank you for your insight! This did help a lot!

[Naj]

‚Blinking’ is an old gundog training term which refers to a dog that has been sent for a retrieve and almost purposely not picking it - studiously hunting all around the dummy as if it doesn’t know it’s there when it can hardly miss it. It was often put down to boredom or heavy handed training building unpleasant associations around the dummy. This is now generally considered a displacement behaviour due to the dog feeling conflicted in some way. It can crop up in all sorts of training situations. Zoomies, snatching at grass and digging can also be seen, as well as feigning to be hunting for something, and scratching, even. Google it if you want to learn more but it’s essentially an emotional response to the situation the dog finds itself in.

[Lola Brewer]

Thank you Naj! I will go out and explore this topic!

[CockerCanuck]

20-30 years ago here in North America I use to see a lot of “blinking” at training sessions and even trials. It was one of the most common faults. Those were the early days of e-collar training and I believe they ruined as many dogs as they helped. However the technology and the understanding that they can be used much more subtly and intelligently has changed things. Though 80-90% of retrievers here are trained with e-collars I rarely see it now.

My advice to Lola would be forget the treats, they have become a distraction, just focus on FUN!!! Be upbeat use a ball or a sock anything the dog enjoys and just make short retrieval lessons the high point of their day. It shouook a lot more like playing than training for a while.

[CockerCanuck]

20-30 years ago here in North America I use to see a lot of “blinking” at training sessions and even trials. It was one of the most common faults. Those were the early days of e-collar training and I believe they ruined as many dogs as they helped. However the technology and the understanding that they can be used much more subtly and intelligently has changed things. Though 80-90% of retrievers here are trained with e-collars I rarely see blinking now.

My advice to Lola would be forget the treats, they have become a distraction, just focus on FUN!!! Be upbeat use a ball or a sock anything the dog enjoys and just make short retrieval lessons the high point of their day. It should look a lot more like playing than training for a while.