Set me off on the right path please

Discuss any aspect of training you have, ask questions, share tips and advice for any breed of gundog.
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Crosshair
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Dogs: Bracken Lilly Holly Hazel Maple Fern
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Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Hello All! I have sat at my feet at this moment Hazel, my 8 week old labrador puppy I bred. As you may or may not of gathered from some of my blog style posts, I am a gamekeeper on a commercial pheasant and partridge shoot. My dogs are very much multi purpose and dog-in, beat and pick up (although i've started to specialise with one of my spaniel's as i only want her to beat) However, i have got enough to keep me going with the work i get now so Hazel can be my luxury dog :-) No premature entry to the shooting field will be required and i've also got the personal discipline to keep her away from all distractions.
So, what i'd like in this thread is some advice on setting my new companion on the right road during say, the next 12 months to get her up to a level where i could maybe even enter her into one of these ridiculously hard puppy tests Wullie keeps describing ;-) If nothing else, i want her to be as fast as her genes possibly allow her to be and to handle well too. No pressure then ;-)
In return i will post lots of updates with all the horrendous errors i'm making and post lots of boring video's of her ;-) . Cheers for now, Andrew :-)
Last edited by Crosshair on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
trekmoor
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by trekmoor »

Hi Andrew, you lucky b"**"r ! I've never been on a plane.

O.k. - it will be next year at this time before your pup will be old enough to cope with a modern type puppy test. You will have to assess your pups degree of mental/physical sensitivity, it's willingness to retrieve and it's willingness to please then begin from there.
I begin with the recall first to voice and then to whistle - though it would be perfectly possible to use only the whistle right from the start. I give tiny little puppy retrieves using an old sock tied into a ball. No steadiness training at all is given for at least a couple of months and maybe a lot longer depending upon how keen the pup is at retrieving.

It is easily possible to bring a pup galloping to you and possibly bringing its retrieve with it by 12 weeks old in response to voice and/or whistle. Stay at that level until the pup does not believe that any other response is possible. Pups do very quickly get bored with an exercise so keep the training sessions very, very short. Half a minute is fine - 3 minutes is too long. I try to give 3 to 6 such tiny sessions in a day , always picking the pups most wakeful moments to do them.
In my situation these "training sessions" take place in my house or since I at last got a house with a tiny garden 8 years ago, in the garden.

All retrieves are at very short distances - absolute maximum about 15 feet. The idea is to encourage retrieving - not the finding of retrieves - that comes a lot later.
Do not train where and when you cannot remove the distractions . All that should be present to interest the pup at that stage is you and the "dummy." No wife, no children, no other dog that can be seen or heard if possible. Work in a narrow space if possible to encourage the pup to you rather than to swerve around you. Don't work wher the pup can pick the dummy up and bog off behind something to chew on it.

All of this training must be kept fun- fun - fun . Anticipate and correct where the pup will go wrong by avoiding that situation. I like to use an awful lot of praise both vocal and physical but others disagree with this - that's up to them and to you.

Enthusiasm comes before perfection. Don't bother the pup with sitting deliveries , not at that stage. Sometimes they work out O.K. but some pups don't like it at all , they begin to recall slowly or won't recall at all. A retrieve is just a recall with something in the dogs mouth - don't slow down the retrieve by insisting upon a sitting delivery. At that age I don't teach the sit at all for about 3 weeks to 3 months after I first got the pup . Heelwork is kept for 4 months old as a minimum . I like to leave that well alone for quite a while. It all depends on my day to day assessment and re-assessment of the puppy.

...............Or !!!! You can wait until the pup is 6 to 10 months old and then start. :lol:

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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arwesa
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by arwesa »

This is going to be a long thread :D ... all above plus..also as wullie says, remembering the retrieve is a recall following a pick up, praise the return, fussing under the chin, once the pup has almost forgotten it has the toy then take it, I like to use a word as I take it so that eventually I can say that word and the pup releases the toy

to begin with only blow or call the recall when the pup is already coming to you with intent, often people call the name first and then encourage the dog, better to get the dog coming then call its name...tap your legs, clicks, whoops lots of exciting get it moving then its name excitedly and I like to hold my arms out, this can then become a recall signal in its own right.

never use its name or randomly talk to the dog unnecessarily, the less you use your voice the more it will mean to the pup when you do. dogs communicate more through positioning and movement than noise and they respond to that.

I like to also get the sit started young, but not in 'do it now' way, but more that if the dog is unsure or wants something I want it to put its bum on the ground. to do this I ignore its excited behaviour towards me and when it sits then it gets my attention. I dont enforce anything but you can quickly get the dog to sit sharply. I dont do this in any 'training ' scenario just as part of its daily routines - like feeding time.

once the pup is about 16 weeks and sitting for its food I like to use direction to release it for its food, i.e. hold his bowl of food and he will sit, then put it behind him and when he looks at me I give the hand signal and comment for back to release him for his food. and same with out. this isnt used in any training for a long time, but the directions and sharpness of reaction becomes instinctive.

theres bound to be lots more to come.
http://www.facebook.com/arwesa

As a handler, its impossible to make your dog perform better than it is, but very easy to make it perform far worse.
Snicklefritz
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Snicklefritz »

Wow! Just wow! I've never seen so much good information in just two posts.

Lain, can you make this a 'getting started' kind of sticky?

I'm speechless.... :shock:

Snick
cornishman

Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by cornishman »

That is quality advice
Rascal
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Rascal »

Stuck!

Great advise, now if we can keep it going till Crosshair comes back from his jolidays we should have just about got that pup trained for him! :16:

Rascal :-D

(Hope he's enjoying his maiden flight. :55: )
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Crosshair
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Dogs: Bracken Lilly Holly Hazel Maple Fern
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

Wow! Many thanks for the replies, can't wait to get started now,
Last edited by Crosshair on Tue Dec 18, 2012 7:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
trekmoor
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Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by trekmoor »

Has the ash stopped your air flight ?

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
trekmoor
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Posts: 16074
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 9:38 am
Dogs: Too many and not enough !
Location: Central Scotland

Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by trekmoor »

Altogether now , singalonga me ......" Always look on the bri-i-i-ght side of life :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: :whistle: !" :lol:

Sorry mate ! :oops: I just couldn't resist it :oops: I'd thought that kind of thing only ever happened to me ! :roll:

Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
Crosshair
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Posts: 439
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:10 am
Dogs: Bracken Lilly Holly Hazel Maple Fern
Location: Newbury Berkshire

Re: Set me off on the right path please

Post by Crosshair »

:D Cheers! :D
Even worse, i've derailed my own thread ;-)
Last edited by Crosshair on Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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