What is a TOP STUD DOG??????

[Duncan]

if they didnt have the right handlers they wouldnt win.

[arwesa]

So how do you find the 'best' stud dog...?....

[kelco]

Health?????????

Maybe im lucky but I never had a good dog with bad health...........

The thread was to do with Stud dogs and what constitutes a good stud dog?

Taking into account that a shit bitch should never be bred off.(see thread re performance testing "which everyone said wouldnt work????????????")

The Stud should have the desired traits that the bitch owner want to maintain quality/compliment or improve a good bitch and her line.

A lot of people are not realists when it comes to breeding.They think that because a bitch is lovely companion and member of the family that trots around on an odd shoot day that it going to be an asset to the breed to breed off it.Worse again they think that if this bitch is mated to a proven champion that they are improving the breed.Horseshit!

They are polluting the good working breed with inferior genes.They then sell these inferior pups to people and increase the proportion of shit stock in the country.

Stud owners get diverted by money and fuel this so although they may have a class stud animal they are as guilty as the bitch owner for watering down quality.

The great trainer and breeder dont care about this ,they have good bitch lines and contacts with good bitch lines so they will always be able to source quality stock.IO,DL,JB,JO,CT,WC and the like I doubt ever phones up anyone who has pups for sale out of the top stud dog in the country to good shooting bitch.They can access the cream.They know the non trialing quality gun dog breeders/trainers(gamekeepers/extrialers etc)

Its the ordinary shooting/beginer/dog person that can get caught out by these poor matings.

I have seen the results of atop quality shooting bitch being mated with a stud dog(OFTW) that produced quality pups.1st litter bought by shooting men and 1 pup ran in 2 novice trials,second litter on the repeat mating 4 out of 7 pups went to trialing men(all bitches).

We need to forget breed for emotion and start breeding for REAL quality.

[kelco]

if they didnt have the right handlers they wouldnt win.

just because they dont win dosnt make them bad dogs
just because they are not handled well dosnt make them bad dogs

I know shooting men that have dogs out of control-heedless ba***rds-but quality spaniels in every way.Ones that I wish I had looking in the window at me.If a dog can appear a classy hard hunting animal having had not time invested in training them,then I think that is a sign of breeding quality.

[DesO'Neile]

This whole thread at least implies that you could "Credit score" dogs and end up with what was the best dog. You can't. There are so many aspects, not least converging pedigrees, that dictate which stud dog would be best for your particular bitch. Finding that dog is an art form rather than a science.

There is also discussion of FT and Non FT dogs. They are all dogs. One of the undisputed greats, Speckle of Ardoon, was the result of a mating between an Eland bitch and a ............show dog.Even better, caused because there were restrictions on the movement of all animals due to a foot and mouth outbreak.

The peversity of human nature is such that there are people out there who wouldn't use the accredited top stud dog,simply because it was the accredited top stud dog, even though it was obviously the right dog while there are others, usually the owners of "top" stud dogs who would put their dog up on any bitch.

[pontbeck]

This whole thread at least implies that you could "Credit score" dogs and end up with what was the best dog. You can't. There are so many aspects, not least converging pedigrees, that dictate which stud dog would be best for your particular bitch. Finding that dog is an art form rather than a science.

There is also discussion of FT and Non FT dogs. They are all dogs. One of the undisputed greats, Speckle of Ardoon, was the result of a mating between an Eland bitch and a ............show dog.Even better, caused because there were restrictions on the movement of all animals due to a foot and mouth outbreak.

The peversity of human nature is such that there are people out there who wouldn't use the accredited top stud dog,simply because it was the accredited top stud dog, even though it was obviously the right dog while there are others, usually the owners of "top" stud dogs who would put their dog up on any bitch.

This post sums it all up for me.No matter how many statistics have been collated you need to know your own bitch and her pedigree, her faults and virtues, and choose a dog to compliment them. It`s not a game of numbers, but intuition to a degree, to know which dog will produce the best pups with your bitch,health tests taken into account.Not every litter will come up to your expectations but with experience you will get it right more often.

Bill

[arwesa]

Absolutely agree about knowing te bitch etc. I dont think the suggestion is anything about stud by numbers, more that real information is needed if we are to be able to realistically say who is the top stud dog, and indeed when it comes to finding and selecting a stud dog for our bitches, I for one, want information that may enable me to decide against the 'standard' choices, but without it everything is a risk and/or word of mouth.

e.g. I want to know how many litters a stud has produced and what they achieved/health results if any (which there will be more of in the future)....for me the issue is not about how you choose the 'best stud' so much as arming yourself with info to make a fully informed choice to find the most suitable one..

[CROFTPLACESPANIELS]

Absolutely agree about knowing te bitch etc. I dont think the suggestion is anything about stud by numbers, more that real information is needed if we are to be able to realistically say who is the top stud dog, and indeed when it comes to finding and selecting a stud dog for our bitches, I for one, want information that may enable me to decide against the 'standard' choices, but without it everything is a risk and/or word of mouth.

e.g. I want to know how many litters a stud has produced and what they achieved/health results if any (which there will be more of in the future)....for me the issue is not about how you choose the 'best stud' so much as arming yourself with info to make a fully informed choice to find the most suitable one..

Well put, Who would buy a car with out checking out its back ground.

[nose-end first]

in reality, most of us, once its cleaned & polished!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[arwesa]

depends if youre buying a banger or a sports car.