Gundog Training Forum

countryboy wrote: I probably say heel more times than I say her name and it's driving me insane

This may well be why you are having no success. Say nothing, but either just stop and walk the other way, or turn. If she's not in the correct spot, if you have to say anything, just grumble at her. She'll get the message soon enough.

Andrew wrote:Where's the dog's body in relation to your knee, 2 paces to far is a bit of an ambiguous description to my mind Sorry just saw the earlier post with a better description.

Hi Andrew, the dog is in front of me - her hind legs are by my knee.

Springfield Pointers wrote:

countryboy wrote: I probably say heel more times than I say her name and it's driving me insane

This may well be why you are having no success. Say nothing, but either just stop and walk the other way, or turn. If she's not in the correct spot, if you have to say anything, just grumble at her. She'll get the message soon enough.

I've tried this, and she understands that she needs to be by my side - she clearly doesn't understand that heel means stay there!

what she does understand is that there is no consistent undesirable consequence for creeping forward. I would carry a thumbstick when you walk, if she's by your heel in the correct position then the stick is in your other hand, if she creeps forward then the stick goes into the hand on the side that the dog is on, if she tries to creep past the stick then you have to tell her 'that you'll rip her leg off if she does that again' - I have never 'ripped the leg off' but the dog has to understand that this is what may happen. Being good = stick out of the way in the other hand, being bad = stick is waved in her face/handler looses it. Which would you choose? But it does require that the dog has respect for you, and I do understand that this will be a step too far for some people.

dogwalker wrote:what she does understand is that there is no consistent undesirable consequence for creeping forward. I would carry a thumbstick when you walk, if she's by your heel in the correct position then the stick is in your other hand, if she creeps forward then the stick goes into the hand on the side that the dog is on, if she tries to creep past the stick then you have to tell her 'that you'll rip her leg off if she does that again' - I have never 'ripped the leg off' but the dog has to understand that this is what may happen. Being good = stick out of the way in the other hand, being bad = stick is waved in her face/handler looses it. Which would you choose? But it does require that the dog has respect for you, and I do understand that this will be a step too far for some people.

Thanks dogwalker, will give it a try!

Mind the dog doesn't move further to the side to avoid the stick! Been there, worn the teeshirt. You then end up with a dog that walks with head at the correct level except that its a foot or more to the side. Maybe take a step back n training and put the lead on so's you can correct the second she is creeping forwards. Also, remember to never say "heel" when she is in the wrong place as she probably thinks the word is related to where she is at that point. Get her into the position you want her in (not too far back otherwise she won't be able to mark, she needs to be her shoulder to your knee and no further forward) then when she is in the right place say "heel" and walk on. If she starts to creep an "OI!" or "AH AH" bring her back to position, say "heel" nicely, praise for correct place, and off you go again. With some dogs it seems like an insurmountable problem but you have to have faith and be consistent, it will happen eventually.

I command heel when I want the dog back it heel, I don't see much difference with saying Here or Heel both commands mean pretty much the same and I'd expect the dog to drop into the heel position from either. If the dog does pull ahead I say heel and the dog drops back, It all depends on how you train from the outset, and when you praise in my opinion!
Occasionally I have used the stick to keep the dogs nose back or swinging lead, when the dog dog began to shy away I did one of two things I either turned to get closer to the dog, or put the lead on, again praise has to come into play.
These days I don't care as much if the dogs neck is not touching my knee, also found I don't fall over as much

Thanks Judy and Andrew, great advice!

Andrew wrote:I command heel when I want the dog back it heel, I don't see much difference with saying Here or Heel both commands mean pretty much the same and I'd expect the dog to drop into the heel position from either. If the dog does pull ahead I say heel and the dog drops back, It all depends on how you train from the outset, and when you praise in my opinion!
Occasionally I have used the stick to keep the dogs nose back or swinging lead, when the dog dog began to shy away I did one of two things I either turned to get closer to the dog, or put the lead on, again praise has to come into play.
These days I don't care as much if the dogs neck is not touching my knee, also found I don't fall over as much

The trouble is, unless the dog knows heel means walk with shoulder / neck beside handlers knee you can say "heel" all yer like but it won't have much effect! "HEEL!" and a tug on the lead means much the same as "OI!" its a reprimand. Only when the dog knows exactly what you want it to do when you command heel does it have the desired effect. (In theory! )

The trouble is, unless the dog knows heel means walk with shoulder / neck beside handlers knee you can say "heel" all yer like but it won't have much effect! "HEEL!"

Spot on! I think this happens to a lot of dogs - unfortunately. Show the dog first; over and over again, when the dog gets it right then 'reward'. Dogs reward must be worthwhile - worthwhile in his opinion, not necessarily yours!