Gundog Training Forum

[/quote] On lead/line, when he runs out and picks up you are with him running backwards giving him big praise and timing the taking of article from him.[/quote]

Do you mean when I send him, go with him or as he picks up start moving away?

What does your 'proper' trainer advise, & why do you think it isn't working?

I agree with the others that if the dog is playing keep-away every time it is sent for a retrieve then, at this age, you need to go back to working on a more structured retrieve in contained surroundings so you have more control. Have you gone through a sit/stay/recall routine while the dog is holding the dummy? As a matter of interest, does the dog mess about if you give it long memory retrieves along tracks? Does it mess about if you toss stuff when standing in thick cover, or if you toss a dummy into thick cover while standing outside it? Have you tried lots of water retrieves? Also, with chronic problems like this, break the routines that are associated with the unwanted behaviour & build new, clean routines.

Naj

I've found with a few dogs that they'll prat about when coming back from a simple retrieve but a more complex one and something heavier to carry concentrates the mind a bit. It's almost as if, because the retrieve isn't stretching them enough, they're running about to get a bit more out of it?

Also, have you tried sending him and then literally paying no attention to him, standing with your back turned? may trigger him into coming up and wanting to show you what he's got?

Naj wrote:What does your 'proper' trainer advise, & why do you think it isn't working?

I agree with the others that if the dog is playing keep-away every time it is sent for a retrieve then, at this age, you need to go back to working on a more structured retrieve in contained surroundings so you have more control. Have you gone through a sit/stay/recall routine while the dog is holding the dummy? As a matter of interest, does the dog mess about if you give it long memory retrieves along tracks? Does it mess about if you toss stuff when standing in thick cover, or if you toss a dummy into thick cover while standing outside it? Have you tried lots of water retrieves? Also, with chronic problems like this, break the routines that are associated with the unwanted behaviour & build new, clean routines.

Naj

Thanks Naj, my trainer says to keep the steadiness and the retrieve will come in time, I have no reason to think that it wont come in time.

I havent done a huge amount within cover as I figured "why move onto something harder when we havent mastered a simple retrieve". Havent tried really long memore retrieve but maybe give it a go tonight.

Thanks

Alice wrote:Also, have you tried sending him and then literally paying no attention to him, standing with your back turned? may trigger him into coming up and wanting to show you what he's got?

Tried this on the weekend with him....20 minutes later.......

So what exactly do you normally do at the moment when he plays keep away? And what else have you tried already to counter the keep away?

Nonehpets wrote:So what exactly do you normally do at the moment when he plays keep away? And what else have you tried already to counter the keep away?

Ive tried long check cords, placeboards, food, toys etc and all had some degree of success, but once I removed the training item we were back to where we started

da.drew wrote:

Nonehpets wrote:So what exactly do you normally do at the moment when he plays keep away? And what else have you tried already to counter the keep away?

Ive tried long check cords, placeboards, food, toys etc and all had some degree of success, but once I removed the training item we were back to where we started

Okay - not quite what I was getting at Do you give him a recall command (voice or whistle or hand signal) or do you just stand waiting for him to come back?

da.drew wrote:

Naj wrote:What does your 'proper' trainer advise, & why do you think it isn't working?

I agree with the others that if the dog is playing keep-away every time it is sent for a retrieve then, at this age, you need to go back to working on a more structured retrieve in contained surroundings so you have more control. Have you gone through a sit/stay/recall routine while the dog is holding the dummy? As a matter of interest, does the dog mess about if you give it long memory retrieves along tracks? Does it mess about if you toss stuff when standing in thick cover, or if you toss a dummy into thick cover while standing outside it? Have you tried lots of water retrieves? Also, with chronic problems like this, break the routines that are associated with the unwanted behaviour & build new, clean routines.

Naj

Thanks Naj, my trainer says to keep the steadiness and the retrieve will come in time, I have no reason to think that it wont come in time.

I havent done a huge amount within cover as I figured "why move onto something harder when we havent mastered a simple retrieve". Havent tried really long memore retrieve but maybe give it a go tonight.

Thanks

As Alice says, it's perhaps because you haven't moved on to something harder that the dog has become bored with 'simple' retrieves & started inventing stuff up for itself. Long memories are good for sorting stuff out like this but make sure you are on a track or lane which will help funnel the dog back in to you. It will also help immensely with your steadiness issues. And are you doing double retrieves with him? Throw them in opposite directions and on either side of some sort of natural gateway that he will have to pass through & where you can intercept him & the prospect of another retrieve may have him coming straight back. And no more dummies thrown out on open ground - make him have to hunt for them, over ditches, streams & hedges & in interesting cover. What about when you are quartering him? Do you ever stop him & toss out a dummy he has to stop & mark & then hunt him away from it, then send him back on it? As I mentioned, your old routines aren't working & have become tainted by being linked with the unwanted behaviour so scrap them & build up completely new routines that work. If you try something new & it doesn't work then scrap it & try something that does. And be prepared for the 'keep-away' behaviour cropping up again from time to time. Persevere & it will gradually fade away.

Naj

if he was my dog I would try giving him a break from the simple retrieve, or in fact from any retrieve for a week, and then hopefully when he's wondering why you don't play this game anymore throw him a quick one and see what happens, and if it works stop there while you are winning, and then be very excited when he does return with a retrieve but don't let him get bored!