I PICKED THE WINNER !

[Naj]

I was saddened at how the Border Collie had deteriorated in just the relatively few years that it has been recognised as a 'Breed'.

Naj

[Megsdad]

I'm completely new to anything to do with Gundog breeds in shows. I do however remember there being some clause about them being 'fit for purpose'. Has the 'haggis hound' ever been tested on it's working ability? Not seeking to create controversy, just asking how it all works. T

[trekmoor]

I was saddened at how the Border Collie had deteriorated in just the relatively few years that it has been recognised as a 'Breed'.

Naj

So was I Naj, so was I ! K.C. rules plus showing fashions do not allow for the variety of collie types needed to deal with various working conditions. The show folk are trying to shove all different types of collie into one non-work tested tin can. I was against the border collie being accepted by the K.C. It is a terrific breed for it's purpose and did not deserve to be turned into the collie equivalent of the show Labrador.

Wullie

[Alice]

some clause about them being 'fit for purpose'. Has the 'haggis hound' ever been tested on it's working ability? Not seeking to create controversy, just asking how it all works. T

The 'fit for purpose' bit just means that they're physically put together right for their original job (as far as the breed standard defines 'right'), no more no less. It's to do with them being able to move, and breathe, and that sort of stuff. It was brought in to try and combat such things as very flat-faced bull breeds, extremely heavy and droopy-eyed clumbers, neopolitan mastiffs with huge amounts of skin around their face etc.

I wouldn't think there are any show terriers (of the KC breeds anyway) who've so much as been ratting, let alone been to ground. (Apart from maybe our very own Pontbeck's Borders, back in the mists of time maybe?)

[pontbeck]

There were several Borders at this years Crufts that are worked on a regular basis. I couldn't comment on the BOB but he comes from a line that works ,on his mothers side. His sire is owned by Ronnie Irving who judged BIS.

[Rookie]

I liked the Scottie , the Flatcoat and wait for it............. The Maltese.

Yep, I thought the Maltese was brilliant. It was my winner closely followed by the Beardie.
To my eye the Flatcoat looked quite ordinary. Happy and showing well, but just ordinary. Shows how little I know!

[Judy]

That's the whole point of Flatcoats, they are supposed to still look like a dog, no excess hair, no exagerated angulation, just a good, balanced, workmanlike dog and that one fulfilled criteria nicely. Breed standard says "Power without lumber, raciness without weediness" -whether very many of those Cruft's dogs work for a living is another matter! I know some do, before I get shredded for saying that, but there's a lot more noise on the benches now than there was when I first had an interest in the breed, that says a lot to me, whining was anathema back in the day.

[trekmoor]

Judy, does anyone still trial flatcoats ? Even 30-40 to 40 years ago very few flatcoats were trialed and very few of those that did trial gained any awards. I don't remember any of them ever competing at Open standard.
I have always liked the breed, they matured much slower than labs and did not work like labs so few people other than myself seemed to like them much.

They were good gundogs but maybe not good trial dogs. I would think the breed is better suited to "rough and tumble" picking up than to trials.
There is a lady near me who "poo-poos" flatcoats but she only saw one working and I thought that particular dog was bloody awful too (he had a bloody awful owner !) The lady who runs down flatcoats has got a bit of a cheek. She has had 4 English Curly Coats since I have known her and not one of them was worth tuppence ! Her curlies even run-in slowly !

Wullie

[Strathcraig]

Daniel Higgs has had awards with a Flatcoat this past season, but if you look at it's pedigree it lends itself to the notion that there aren't many trialling flatcoats around.

http://www.higgscroft.co.uk/stud_dogs.html

[Naj]

I like the Flatcoat. The ones I have shot over made good roughshooting dogs, hunting-up as well as retrieving. They would be wasted on a field trial.

Naj