Gundog Training Forum

I know we get the dregs

Blanco wrote:I know we get the dregs

You probably get what you choose.
Guidance to that choice is what you take.
You have what you have.

What you do with it is another story

The training style is so different, the dogs you think of as mad we see as brilliant.
Our Springers regularly work at 30 yards or better. Taking a runner or working a retrieve out to 100 or more yards is perfectly acceptable. We demand our dogs be bold and smash down trees like a bulldozer.

Blanco wrote:The fascinating trend here in the US has for several years been to breed for much larger Springers. My own Dog (Gator) is quite the big boy at 62Lb.

Jesus, my Badgercourt dog is 21kg/46.2lb and he gets a lot of comments for being a big dog!

Blanco wrote:The training style is so different, the dogs you think of as mad we see as brilliant.
Our Springers regularly work at 30 yards or better. Taking a runner or working a retrieve out to 100 or more yards is perfectly acceptable. We demand our dogs be bold and smash down trees like a bulldozer.

Don't kid yourself that you Americans hold the monopoly on bold, hard hunting dogs. Range & style of flush are trained behaviours. It would be an eliminating fault in a UK trial if a dog trapped/pegged a bird. We might demand different things of our dogs, but a bold hunter is always a highly desirable trait wherever you live, and in that respect British dogs can stand against any in the world, otherwise why would you be so keen to import them! And it's a one-way trade, I don't see any market for importing American springers into the UK.

Naj

Blanco wrote:The training style is so different, the dogs you think of as mad we see as brilliant.
Our Springers regularly work at 30 yards or better. Taking a runner or working a retrieve out to 100 or more yards is perfectly acceptable. We demand our dogs be bold and smash down trees like a bulldozer.

When you say work at 30 yards do you mean hunt or retrieve? Our dogs are also expected to take runners and long retrieves, open dogs, certainly.

I'm curious as to what attributes you would want from a small, roughshooting dog to contribute to a gene pool of "bulldozers" ? Is it just to widen the pool ? If not, then it must be to improve something ?

Eastie, I think that Blanco will be referring to quartering out to 30 yards. And what we refer to as 'runners' (wounded birds) the Americans call 'cripples'. An American 'runner' is what we'd call a (un-shot) moving bird. Since birds are 'planted' in American trials they are likely to move from the seat & when this happens the dog is expected to track them until they force a flush, being stopped when necessary for the handler/guns to catch up as they follow the line.

Naj

Naj wrote:Eastie, I think that Blanco will be referring to quartering out to 30 yards. And what we refer to as 'runners' (wounded birds) the Americans call 'cripples'. An American 'runner' is what we'd call a (un-shot) moving bird. Since birds are 'planted' in American trials they are likely to move from the seat & when this happens the dog is expected to track them until they force a flush, being stopped when necessary for the handler/guns to catch up as they follow the line.

Naj

Cheers. 30 yards is a fair way out for a quartering spaniel.

Ok let me catch up..
Yes, our dogs quarter 25~30 yds wide and 30~ 40 yards out. Our birds are pen raised, mostly because it is against the law here to use wild birds for a private venture. They are considered a public asset. I wish we did have enough wild game to put a trial on for.
I am not knocking the close working Spaniels. I personally prefer a closer working dog, alas such is not the standard here in the trials. A close working spaniel would be considered a boot polisher here. Please don't think I am disparaging the way you do it, It is just different.
As for expanding the gene pool, it is just my personal opinion. I just see the pool stagnating a bit. 10~15 years ago Spaniels were much more popular here. There were loads of breeders and trainers. I think when the older generation retired and got out of the game there were not many replacements. Not as many of the newer generation hunt or shoot. So as for the field lines here the number of good dogs has dwindled and the breeding pool has evaporated. There are no specific faults as I see it but our Springers are becoming Labs.