Gundog Training Forum

You're confusing ground treatment with 'action' Cass. A dog's action is how it moves - it's hunting gait, in this case, if you like. A cocker action is markedly different to a springer action. Cockers also have a different hunting style to that of springers. These are a reflection of fundamental differences in conformation & psyche between the two breeds.

Naj

From what I've seen (in my own dog as well) is cockers have a lot more.... body movement. Much more animated.

Naj wrote:You're confusing ground treatment with 'action' Cass. A dog's action is how it moves - it's hunting gait, in this case, if you like. A cocker action is markedly different to a springer action. Cockers also have a different hunting style to that of springers. These are a reflection of fundamental differences in conformation & psyche between the two breeds.

Naj

wot he said. you don't train action, it's what's just in them. It's often what shows a cocker-y looking sprocker up as not being what it may look, and vice versa.

Re. your question about Dealer, he was a phenomenal producer, as was Rackatear. The dogs you mention can be seen in the championships DVDs available from Paul French video (apart from Diana Floss of Windmillwood, who doesn't appear to have been run in uk trials- she doesn't have any UK registered progeny either) - they go back to 1990.

JET1955 wrote:

springerish action
i tapped in those exact words on my second post,
but then decided not to go down that avenue,and changed it.

I wouldn't worry, the dog's long gone and whatever his parentage he doesn't seem to have done the breed much harm! There's more than a few cockers of that generation with question marks over them, but it doesn't really matter now IMO.

An 'action' is quite breed specific. A GSP has a different 'action' to, say, a spaniel. And within the HPRs a Brittany has a different action to a GSP. Without seeing your dog I can't say but once you've seen a true cocker action then you will be able to immediately distinguish it from that of a typical springer action. Whether that is the difference that you are seeing in your cocker when comparing it with springers I can't really say without seeing the dog, but action can never be a product of training - it's intrinsic to the breed/dog. I'd consider that cockers have a 'fussier' style of hunting than springers.

Naj

as wiv wot Alice said.

Ground treatment and pattern as nothing to do with style and action of a cocker .Peter Jones s book "The Working Cocker" describe s the action of springer and cocker as well as anyone,in my opinion. One of my favourite cockers to watch,who had real cockery style was Timsgarry Kelly,a cracking little dog who proved her worth as brood bitch as well.

What a great thread! Even though its off on a bit of a tangent, its an interesting one

Cass wrote:To keep this off of that topic, has anyone seen or heard stories of Dardnell Dealer? Why was he such a popular sire? From what I understand he was just a ftch... did he win a national? Other dogs that interest me (because they are in Jake's pedigree) are Zelda of Cadboll, Mallowdale Rackatear, and Diana Floss of Windmillwood

Just a FTCH. Nothing to special then!

I am not downplaying the importance of a FTCH but there are lots of them. Why were specific ones like Dealer and Druid such popular sires? Certainly they must have more than just ftch

Cass wrote:I am not downplaying the importance of a FTCH but there are lots of them. Why were specific ones like Dealer and Druid such popular sires? Certainly they must have more than just ftch

Dogs made up under certain handlers will always be popular, as people believe what they're fed. Not saying the dogs don't deserve it obviously, but when known dogs with faults are made up, running under "certain friends" it does make one wonder.......
a top dog was eye wiped last year, that dog should of been out. However it won. Such is the politics of trials. There was a FB thread the other day about labs and retreive handlers embracing the new online entry system but very few spaniel people wanting it, for some unknown reason

A very good trailer said to me not long ago whilst looking for a stud, "there are champions and there are champions " take from that what you like.

But keeping the thread on track as dawnrazor mentioned in another thread, misselchalke lad of halaze won 7 opens, 4th at champs and coms at all others. And one or two diplomas in the IKC too.
One of his best runs was an eye wipe on a runner woodcock. The other dog failed to take a line and worked in a normal pattern but still failed to find the line. Lad was sent, straight out. Got on the line, flushed another woodcock, which was his flush, pushed back and picked up the line again. There is a slow motion replay as he catches the bird 6ft in the air over a stream. I believe martin dealy was commentator and he got quite excited!!
I can't recall but I think it was catelylane predator he eye wiped,the last time that dog ran unfortunately to sad circumstances. However I am open to correction on the above