Gundog Training Forum

There's a time and place for them. It depends very much on what you are using it for and how you are using it.

Judy wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:25 am

Rascal wrote: ↑Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:33 am Interesting reading on this thread viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2133

Would I use them on a pup absolutely not, why would you?

Rascal

A$$ I spent some time searching for that last night!
Its quite simple, if you aren't good enough to train a pup without you aren't good enough to train one with.

Didn't you question me when I made that statement last week?

Over here on this side of the pond ecollars are commonplace among working dog folks. I myself use one regularly and I think it is one of the greatest tools available to a trainer as you can use it to finesse many behaviors. I found it particularly helpful for my dog as he is a softy so it allows me to correct him without having him shut down on me which just a stern voice can sometimes do. You didn't mention age. Personally I don't think there's any place for a collar on a puppy. The dog has to be taught first.

I have one and use it sparingly. As others have said not much information to go on in the original post. A puppy could be 8 weeks or a year and a half, quite different situations. The way I use it I don't "teach" the dog anything with it. You train by traditional means until you are confident the dog understands the command. Then if needed the collar can be used to reinforce the command if the dog gets willful or sloppy. With a puppy I think I would still be very much in the teaching stage and leave the collar in a drawer until he was older.

They are not a miracle and I would prefer to train without it. Not because I think they are cruel more because I am kind of an old fashioned guy and am more confident in my traditional methods. However occasionally situations can arise where they are (nearly) indispensable.

CockerCanuck wrote: ↑Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:13 am The way I use it I don't "teach" the dog anything with it. ... However occasionally situations can arise where they are (nearly) indispensable.

CC, somewhere between Cass' teaching and your not teaching with the e-collar is "collar conditioning" for North American field trial retrievers. With the e-collar a cornerstone of retriever training, it's indispensable from the start if you're competing.

I've a hunch that the original post here - having put forth so little information about the "puppy" in question and the idea of training it with an e-collar - may be a trolling not unlike what wullie and a couple others here have seen crop up on 'Merican forums with the e-collar the fat and juicy bait on the hook for some strikingly wrong-headed comments.

MG

Yep every time the e-collar subject comes up I tend to lay low to see where the thread is going to go....many times the OP just wants to stir the pot so to speak. I am not sure what the motives are in this case since no details where given.
My personal opinion is that the e-collar is a pretty amazing tool in the right hands but learning to use it correctly is not as easy as just pushing a button and many problems can start with a dog when used improperly or in the wrong hands. As Cass said I think it can be used on a soft dog sometime easier than a harsh voice correction but again this goes back to learning to use it properly.

I've a couple of mates that have used/use them on a dog that barks in the kennel, both live on housing estates and obviously have close neighbours to the side and back of the garden, excellent results, if they bark too much, compliants are made and dogs would have to go, I see nothing wrong with this kind of use.