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Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:42 am
by Gundogguy
Springfield Pointers wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:48 pm
Rough_mut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:53 am
I caught my dog do this once, dropped a dead bird so he could follow another scent. I was fuming! Right up until he came out with a runner!
I've seen a dog, on the way back with a bird in it's mouth, draw in on scent, hit a solid point and produce another bird for the gun.
Yes seen that! I have had spaniels that would would make game and flush bird with bird in mouth, be steady, mark , then delivery the bird in mouth then be sent back for the diversion bird. Even trained for it with some simple drills.
Here when a dog is swapping we call it "shopping"... FF is use to eliminate "shopping" here.
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:41 pm
by Rough_mut
Springfield Pointers wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:51 am
Rough_mut wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:19 pm
Springfield Pointers wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:48 pm
I've seen a dog, on the way back with a bird in it's mouth, draw in on scent, hit a solid point and produce another bird for the gun.
I do wonder how they can tell when they have a bird in their mouth? I know the sense of smell is stronger than I can even imagine but you would of though excitement would get in the way!
Rm
Excitement, RM? I'm referring to sensible, measured, contained and calm pointers, not those barmy spaniels
The pointers I have seen (GwP) where far from sensible measured and contained! Even with the electric collars on!
And spaniels barmy? My spaniel is sensible... maybe not. Measured - also maybe not. Contained - well is he contained... as long as the container is very big!
Rm
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:11 pm
by Nickheref
Personally if I have sent a dog for a bird and it has picked it, I don't want it putting it down for any reason, if there are others to pick it can go for them after delivering the one it has.
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:20 pm
by crackerd
Darned good call, Naj. What was it, 6-7 years ago, that a top dog got the heave from the IGL champs when one bird fell atop another and the dog retrieved both simultaneously? Thought that a rather harsh penalty to pay for a cracking job retrieving.
Meanwhile, on our side, swapping is called "switching" and gets tested in both trials and tests by use of "poison birds," the picking of which, as opposed to the retrieve the dog's originally been sent for, also results in disqualification.*
Naj wrote: ↑Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:44 am
Multiple rewards to choose from and a lack of or breakdown in training. It’s a normal part of distraction proofing the retrieve to train the dog to deliver what is in its mouth regardless of returning through scattered dummies or seeing them flying through the air. In the field, however, a dog could be on its first retrieve and have a bird shot within clear sight and its first instinct might well be to spit out what is in its mouth and run over or just run over and swap birds. Or it might be out of sight and returning with a retrieve when it comes upon another bird and swaps without you knowing and you have a developing problem. This is hard to replicate with dummies and often hard to immediately intervene with in the shooting field so a problem behaviour easily develops in the context of picking up. That’s why it pays to very carefully introduce a young dog to picking up and be very selective in when you send it to retrieve until confidence in reliability builds.
MG
* For your edification, Naj, the cat pee smell of a Dokken - if such lumps of plastic were used in our tests and trials - would never entice a dog into making a mistake with a retrieve. In fact, quite the opposite when they
were used 12-15 years ago by a gundog org. during an outbreak of avian influenza that prevented actual birds as fare. Ask me how I know this
...
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:19 pm
by Naj
Aha!
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:02 pm
by trekmoor
I agree , dokkens do smell like cat pee ! I've always wondered if they taste like cat too ?
Wullie
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:22 pm
by Naj
Never having been introduced to a Dokken I’ll take your word for it.
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:33 pm
by Gundogguy
trekmoor wrote: ↑Fri Feb 09, 2018 8:02 pm
I agree , dokkens do smell like cat pee ! I've always wondered if they taste like cat too ?
Wullie
Lost me recipe for feline Though I have heard it taste like chicken!
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:58 pm
by Cass
As gdg alluded to we call that shopping and it is undesirable. FF eliminates that but FF aside it is a breakdown in the retrieve. A retrieve consists of running out, picking the dummy or bird and then basically a recall. If it shops around for another bird it is not following the command. "No, Here! " is sometimes all it takes to keep a dog on track and focused.
Re: Swapping Birds
Posted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 8:17 pm
by Rough_mut
Cass wrote: ↑Sat Feb 10, 2018 12:58 pm
As gdg alluded to we call that shopping and it is undesirable. FF eliminates that but FF aside it is a breakdown in the retrieve. A retrieve consists of running out, picking the dummy or bird and then basically a recall. If it shops around for another bird it is not following the command. "No, Here! " is sometimes all it takes to keep a dog on track and focused.
I think it's easy to train for, my dog is quite use to having a tennis ball launched to bounce in front of him as he is retrieving another ball to me.
How ever if he was picking a dead bird up and runner landed near him and set of, I would unfairly expect him to drop the dead one and go for the runner. And I think he would but more due to lack of training than anything. It might be wrong and I'm sure wouldn't go well with the field trial style of training, but we loose enough runners as it is!
Rm