Dog mouthing dummy still

[ESS]

Im confussed, his recall is 100% he comes right in to me and sits with the dummy but he moving it around hi mouth, the same with a dummy.

[crackerd]

One reason to avoid tennis balls,
You cannot in my mind install a good retrieve until you have 90% recall.
Hes making a noise because that's to far advanced for the pup and I wouldn't even dream of doing stuff like that personally.
Slippery slope if your not very careful, and without causing you problems, find a new trainer

98.6% recall, Springcopse, at least. When I have had reluctant pups at recalling, I blew the come-in whistle as soon as they got to the bird on a thrown mark then "towed" them in by long line without the retrieve if they even hesitated a nanosecond at bringing it back, so they would know at that time in their formative training the greater priority for compliance. Took a couple of tows and they all realized who the source of their thrown retrieves was, and how only the "operational manager" could ply them with opportunity.

So, Jackie, based on ESS having his dog undergo a procedure that's almost the antithesis of force fetch - getting a dog to take a firmer grip rather than open its mouth for a retrieve object - and given what you've experienced with your 14-month-old, are you thinking of revisiting what you did with an earlier spaniel (and professional guidance, if I recall correctly)? The kinder, gentler methods - Bill Hillman - were all the rage for retrievers a few years back, but if the dogs undergoing it were being trained for competitive purposes, there were a lot of do-overs with more traditional "basics." I wouldn't think that the case with spaniels whose handlers follow Hillman, but I've got no basis in fact for that comment. But as you found out, force fetching isn't about retrieving, per se, it's about bending a dog's delivery to the handler's will - as in "When FF has been imparted, you will retrieve how - and where - and what - and when I, the handler, want you to."

MG

[Springcopse spaniels]

Im confussed, his recall is 100% he comes right in to me and sits with the dummy but he moving it around hi mouth, the same with a dummy.

That's a start, we need ALL INFORMATION we cant guess.
I'd not be making anything of it, I'd use a heavier dummy
.but in general you will find that with game they wont generally mouth, its tennis balls that induce this i find and why I never train with them.

[chrokeva]

For some reason when I went through FF with my 1st dog I missed the part about how important it was for the dog's mouth to remain still (probably because it was never a issue with my first or second dog). Every dog clearly teaches you something and this one has taught me how important it is for a dog to have a calm mouth....ahhh the school of hard knocks is great fun. So yes back to basics for this dog. I did put her on the table for the force hold (or trained hold as some prefer to call it) but clearly missed this important part and to give me a bit of a break it really did not rear it's ugly head until we were on live birds and her excitement level came up.
Never followed the Hillman method so can't comment on that.

[crackerd]

Funniest thing I personally recall apropos ESS' trainer chum's alternative method of getting a better grip - at least funniest thing correlated that I've personally experienced was with my first spaniel, a rescue Sussex with the appropriately long ears. This was nigh on 30 years ago and the dog had a oral fixation for (gently) mouthing my hand, which I allowed because, as I say, she was a rescue and any kind of bonding was hard come by, so why not? But when I would rub her ears with the other hand whilst she was so engaged, it was indeed almost a reflexive gesture that her mouthing would become a firm grip on a retrieve object that just happened to be my left hand. Not painful, just firm and consistent. But that was an ear rub, or "good scritch" as the show folks called it, not a pinch.

I also recall one of Naj's avatars, Archbishop Derry Argue, preaching that a successful delivery of a retrieve by a setter or gundog should immediately rate same "good scritch" of ears for a job well done. Again, not a pinch but a post-delivery appreciation of the dog's compliance. That always stuck with me as I set out on a force-fetching path that has spanned about a dozen different breeds of gundogs - application and praise in equal dollops, gentle but firm in what you do in the training...

MG

[ESS]

Thanks all for the replies. My other two dogs are extremely soft mouthed so never had this issue as they give a nice delivery. The dog in question is actually the best retreiver of them all except the delivery.
From day one he has all ways come in to me but i started in the hall way to stop him running past. He gets so excited he full of life but use to always want lie down and chew it.!
Thats now sorted.!

[Lloyd90]

My ESS is 8 months next week and will hold a dummy still in his mouth but often when excited will roll a tennis ball around in his mouth or even push firmly down on it at times.

How do you train a dog to have a "still mouth" and keep it very still then?

[ips]

Im confussed, his recall is 100% he comes right in to me and sits with the dummy but he moving it around hi mouth, the same with a dummy.

its tennis balls that induce this i find and why I never train with them.

Obviously my experience is limited but i never had an issue with balls. My one is mad for balls and will retrieve em all day and has never mouthed em neither does she mouth anything else. I never chastise retrieves of anything even if i didnt want it such as reading glasses remote controls etc

[chrokeva]

Im confussed, his recall is 100% he comes right in to me and sits with the dummy but he moving it around hi mouth, the same with a dummy.

its tennis balls that induce this i find and why I never train with them.

Obviously my experience is limited but i never had an issue with balls. My one is mad for balls and will retrieve em all day and has never mouthed em neither does she mouth anything else. I never chastise retrieves of anything even if i didnt want it such as reading glasses remote controls etc

Dogs are not robots and they are all different.

[trekmoor]

I've had dogs that did bite down on tennis balls and dogs that did not. I take the easiest line whenever possible so if I thought tennis balls were becoming or causing a problem my solution was very simple …. I stopped using them with that pup.

Wullie