Cass, enlighten us with an example of that happening, please -
Cass wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:48 pm
I enjoy watching a dog mess up and correct itself. It lets you know the dog really learned the lesson.
Used to be a black dog in one of my training groups - she had almost the same name as the telly programme called "MI-5" went by back in Blighty, which was politically sensitive in this parts. Owner would always say "Sp**k may not get it done right but she gets it done fast." "Correcting herself" was about as farfetched a notion as putting her at the helm of NASA Mission Control as a guide dog for a walk on the moon. As I suspect it is for most/the great majority of/all gundogs.
I love watching a young dog try to work out how to do something and fail then immediately try a different method and succeed, to me that is the sign of a trier who really wants to do it.
Nickheref wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:54 pm
I love watching a young dog try to work out how to do something and fail then immediately try a different method and succeed, to me that is the sign of a trier who really wants to do it.
I've a trier here... trying my bloody patience at the moment
A well schooled dog will open doors, a poor one closes them quickly.
Oh good grief, I'm agreeing with Naj, quick, call the doctor! The best trainers strike a balance between obedience and initiative. So many dogs are either overtrained and dull or, as in my case, insufficiently trained and good at using their initiative.
Edited to correct spell checker NAJ not nav...
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Nickheref wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:54 pm
I love watching a young dog try to work out how to do something and fail then immediately try a different method and succeed, to me that is the sign of a trier who really wants to do it.
I've a trier here... trying my bloody patience at the moment
That's OK, SS, patience and "projected playfulness" are the secret to gettin' it done - heavy emphasis on the patience (and persevering without taking it out on the dog) part. Just took me 45 feckin', er, funnin' minutes to run my black pup on six blind retrieves that would have taken a (highly) trained retriever about a tenth of that time. But, hey, that's training. ... Fun, fun, fun 'til (y)er Daddy takes the T-bird away, as The Beach Boys used to say, and plenty, plenty patience!
Judy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 7:52 pm
Oh good grief, I'm agreeing with nav, quick, call the doctor! The best trainers strike a balance between obedience and initiative. So many dogs are either overtrained and dull or, as in my case, insufficiently trained and good at using their initiative.
I am not arguing that making mistakes will help a dog learn just some people who haven't got the training right will use making mistakes as an excuse and hope their dog will become better at the things they want but there are some mistakes that merely means the dog will get better at making those mistakes not become a better gundog. Take pegging, dogs become better at pegging the more they do it but it does not make them a better gundog. I have met a lot of people over the years who claim to be entirely happy with their dogs performance but if you could improve the dog I am willing to bet none of them would have complained that they preferred it the way it behaved before!! You only have to look at the number of ecollars on shoots to see that some people are desperate to stop their dogs making mistakes with a quick fix.
It all depends on what your definition of a mistake is!
Well, my youngster is going through a phase of running in on seens, she does about 4 strides then stops and trots back, I consider that to be a "mistake" on the other hand, senior dog taking off sweeping before the end of the drive is another matter entirely.
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Nickheref wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:41 am
.... You only have to look at the number of ecollars on shoots to see that some people are desperate to stop their dogs making mistakes with a quick fix.
It all depends on what your definition of a mistake is!
Yes, Nick - adage here goes "Dogs do what works for them." If what works for them ain't what works for you, it's your mistake in "them's" training.
What Judy is alluding to - a dog dying to run in but correcting its course after about four steps forward - is one of the only scenarios I know for gundogs "remedying their own indiscretion." But Our Cass may come along shortly with others...
