Gundog Training Forum

t jack wrote:all too often you see pedigree's with lots of red, until you look at the bottom line and there is next to nothing

I agree - it think that bitch carries the quality.If it was the dog then FTW/FTCH stud dogs would produce multiple winners and champions out of average bitches.(I think that this is rare-but but makes a stud dog exceptional)I think that its only when a quality bitch is mated to these quality dogs that you have chance of getting something equally as good/close to the Sire or Dam.

I agree - it think that bitch carries the quality.If it was the dog then FTW/FTCH stud dogs would produce multiple winners and champions out of average bitches.(I think that this is rare-but but makes a stud dog exceptional)I think that its only when a quality bitch is mated to these quality dogs that you have chance of getting something equally as good/close to the Sire or Dam.

I have read this a good few times and the only conclusion I can make is that the author has a bitch he want's to breed. Invairably when somebody breeds their bitch and the results are good it's down to the bitch and if they are rubbish its the dog's fault. If it was all down to the bitch why would John Halstead's six, or so stud dogs, be booked up mornings and evenings seven days a week at £450/approx a pop? The reasons that Blue Hen's and prepotent studs are so special is that they are like hen's teeth and of the two the Blue Hen is much more difficult to recognise as she may only be bred once in her life. You are far from being guaranteed a good result if you used the best dogs on the best bitches but statistically you are much more likely to achieve a good result.

I've got a bitch by Saturns Spirit and she is a real hunting machine. She is out of a well bred bitch who had won a novice. When I'm at trials or tests now I can spot dogs that are by Spirit as they seem to all look so similar and are all (that i've seen) real hard going dogs. This dog seems to really put his stamp on the pups which shows you what influence the sire has.

Jonathan

DesO'Neile wrote: If it was all down to the bitch why would John Halstead's six, or so stud dogs, be booked up mornings and evenings seven days a week at £450/approx a pop?

Is it not simpler than that?

Most dog owners/handlers for some reason prefer bitches to dogs.

Many dog owners/handlers are not sufficiently knowledgeable and skilled about breeding, but set out with the aim of improving the prodigy, so to ensure this happens that they either rely on the advice of “experienced” people, or they go to the most well known dogs/lines.

Nick

keanerthanroy wrote:I've got a bitch by Saturns Spirit and she is a real hunting machine. She is out of a well bred bitch who had won a novice. When I'm at trials or tests now I can spot dogs that are by Spirit as they seem to all look so similar and are all (that i've seen) real hard going dogs. This dog seems to really put his stamp on the pups which shows you what influence the sire has.

Jonathan

Who was the bitch?

Edgegrove Humble of Echoway (by Halaze Hickory of Edgegrove and out of Edgegrove Elder)

Jonathan

keanerthanroy wrote:Edgegrove Humble of Echoway (by Halaze Hickory of Edgegrove and out of Edgegrove Elder)

Jonathan

That will interesting to see, not to different from the litter I had last year.

keanerthanroy wrote:I've got a bitch by Saturns Spirit and she is a real hunting machine. She is out of a well bred bitch who had won a novice. When I'm at trials or tests now I can spot dogs that are by Spirit as they seem to all look so similar and are all (that i've seen) real hard going dogs. This dog seems to really put his stamp on the pups which shows you what influence the sire has.

Jonathan

The influence that particular sire has! The Lab, Dipplelodge Raven of Riversway is also a prepotent sire whose progeny are mostly very similar, however, not all sires have these dominant genes, sometimes the bitch has the stronger genes and sometimes the pups are a mix of the two. As I understand it this kind of prepotency isn't that common.

Judy

Most dog owners/handlers for some reason prefer bitches to dogs.

What research is this observation based on?

I can't see how to set up a poll on this forum. Might be interesting to see what the figures are for this forum's members.

DesO'Neile wrote: What research is this observation based on?

I can't see how to set up a poll on this forum. Might be interesting to see what the figures are for this forum's members.

Des,
You will first need to create a new topic, Once on the new topic page, Scroll down the bottom and you will see a "Create Poll" Button
Its next to the Upload Attachment" button


See it?.....i'm pointing at it now