FTCH qualification criteria and trials

[trekmoor]

That preference is given in a draw for Open trials to dogs that already have trial awards I think is fair but even having an award from previous trials will not guarantee that you will get a run in future Opens. Some years ago I had two lab bitches sitting in my house that had both won 2 day ,24 dog Open trials. Even with that behind them I couldn't get a good enough draw from a hat to compete in other Opens and maybe make them up to F.T.Ch. After receiving word saying that after the most recent draw from the hat I was 72nd reserve for an Open trial I gave in trialing labs completely and began trialing H.P.R.'s instead.

Wullie

[cjaus]

I've split this topic from Arwesa's thread ..."The pros secret"....as we were drifting off topic

[FCSpringer]

In all open runs preference is given to dogs with open awards and/or a novice win. If you enter an open you will be at the bottom of the list for a run, down here we were having between 45 and 55 entrys for open trials.
You only have 2 day opens in retrievers ( not including the champs) and you still have to win more than one 2 day stake to made upto a FTCH.

I find this troubling. So you are saying you need to sort of be a part of a golden circle to have a dog win? So it is often there that the best performing dog does not win????????
To me that is detrimental to the breed as a whole, as the people looking for quality are often looking at Field trial champions. And this says that the best dog may go home empty handed. That is a travesty. It should be the best dog of that day wins his reward..... If what you say is true, it is hardly a fair field trial.

At no point does it say this..... the preference part is about getting a run not winning. Read it again in relation to the above post.

So you mean that in order to get in a trial they give preferance??? Why are they limited in numbers???? This also is not a good ideal. Any one wanting to enter should be alowed. Even the people with limited funds that can only make a couple per year. To me this is some what buying a championship.

[James]

[quote="
So you mean that in order to get in a trial they give preferance??? Why are they limited in numbers???? This also is not a good ideal. Any one wanting to enter should be alowed. Even the people with limited funds that can only make a couple per year. To me this is some what buying a championship.[/quote]

Yes they are limited to either 16 or 18 dogs per open trail (for spaniels). This is because we have to hunt game properly, we dont carry the birds around in bags, chuck them in the air then shoot the crap out of them. We also dont release them from traps, each dog has to hunt new ground to produce game for the gun and runs can go on for 30/40 mins. This means that the dogs have to be trained to very high standered as they will see and have work a large amount of ground. No preference for novice trials only opens, this is simply to make sure the better dogs get given a chance to get through to the championships, this in turn keeps that standered up in my mind to be the best you will find ANYWHERE.

[starburygundogs]

James you pulled me out of the shadows. This attitude of British superiority really grinds my gears. Although you folks may have started spaniel trials you folks have left some gapping holes in your game as have we. We must remember trials are only a game doesn't matter where you are running. As far as your comments of working game properly and we throw birds in the air and what other garbage you are spewing you better buy a plane ticket and come over with the next load of dogs you try and peddle over here cause clearly you have no idea how trials are run over here. It takes more then a high head and speed to winner over here, and yes we don't like hard mouth or barking over here either so next time you hear its a yanke on the phone, control your uruges and don't send spot over here for good money cause you think he can win over here. The rate of success for dogs who are imported from the UK and make top grade I believe is about 25%. When all-age events have easily 35+ enteries it is difficult to finish let alone place over here. I am sure I will get banished to outer space and that is fine just turned HULK green when I seen what you wrote as it appears to me you have a very bais opinon of trials over here and it makes me so mad because I have taken the time to embrace the UK trial game I would expect the same from people who most likely without hesitation ship dogs over here in hopes they are good enough to trial.

[arwesa]

25% of imported dogs make the grade?....in the UK significantly less of our own dogs 'make the grade'. this may be due to the system meaning perfectly good dogs dont get their fair chance, but if such a high percentage make it in US is this because the system is different and its more like a qualification? If 25% of pups turn out to be winners Id say thats a very high return.

genuinely curious.

[James]

James you pulled me out of the shadows. This attitude of British superiority really grinds my gears. Although you folks may have started spaniel trials you folks have left some gapping holes in your game as have we. We must remember trials are only a game doesn't matter where you are running. As far as your comments of working game properly and we throw birds in the air and what other garbage you are spewing you better buy a plane ticket and come over with the next load of dogs you try and peddle over here cause clearly you have no idea how trials are run over here. It takes more then a high head and speed to winner over here, and yes we don't like hard mouth or barking over here either so next time you hear its a yanke on the phone, control your uruges and don't send spot over here for good money cause you think he can win over here. The rate of success for dogs who are imported from the UK and make top grade I believe is about 25%. When all-age events have easily 35+ enteries it is difficult to finish let alone place over here. I am sure I will get banished to outer space and that is fine just turned HULK green when I seen what you wrote as it appears to me you have a very bais opinon of trials over here and it makes me so mad because I have taken the time to embrace the UK trial game I would expect the same from people who most likely without hesitation ship dogs over here in hopes they are good enough to trial.

I will try and down load some American retriever trials for you to see then, so you can see for your self that they do indeed throw the birds into the air for shooting. As well as this, there is a comp called "The Bird Dog Championships" this is not sport but a race against the clock. The dogs are all running in after the birds they have managed to find, then the handlers take pot shots over the top of their dogs while the birds are not much more than 2/3 feet of the floor. Oh and I see that nearly all the dogs compeating in it have E-collars on.
As for getting banished im sure that will not be happening, as this is a forum for poeple to air their veiws.
Each to there own.

[starburygundogs]

arwesa maybe I should have been more clear on the 25% I just pulled a number out from what is a small group of people of four imported dogs I have had 1 has made the grade and we still might give another one a chance. But when you are bringing over dogs 12 months plus at 1500lbs a dog I am sure you would like to see a little higher rate then 25% these are all rough number but are fairly accurate. Thats why I have gone to pups bring em of at 12 weeks and I have just as good of chance or better then getting something started or almost finished. But you also have to figure by making it I am not saying dogs that make champions, but are of quality enough to compete. When there are over 100 trials a year in America thats alot of dogs and alot of placements. And thats alot of travelling even within ones area. So if the dogs is good but not good enough to be placing in 35+ dog enteries might as well stay home. To run in a championship you need two points. 1st=5 points 2= 3 points 3= 2 points 4= 1 point. I am not slagging british bred dogs as thats all I have and will continue to go that way as I like to train very much like you guys in the Uk but with a few different twists. But what i find madding is assumuptions of american trials and how if your dogs is steady and doesn't eat the bird you have got a contender on your hands.

[starburygundogs]

James you mentioned spaniel trials so what is it? Retriever trials don't resemble hunting over here either not even sure they use birds over here. Think they might be run solely on dummies

[starburygundogs]

Just finished reading your last post, bird dog championship are bogus I am talking bout AKC CKC registed spaniel trials cocker trials as well everything else is pay and you are able to run. I am talking about spaniel trials. So the other stuff Idon't care about and most other who are importing top british bred dogs don't either