Article on the state of the modern day springer spaniel

[scot-ish]

What a great thread, the first one on this forum in a good ferw months, that is actually worth a read, and hasny turned into some load off bullshit.

Naj- your posts are a breath of fresh air- albeit from a long time ago, you obviously have a wealth of knowledge with regards to older lines and the goings on back in the day, makes such a change from the general pish thats posted on here nowadays.

[Polmaise]

My point being that it is one thing keeping a dog steady & under control when someone else is doing the shooting for you or when beating or picking-up, situations where you can concentrate 100% on the dog, but it surely takes more expertise to successfully shoot over the dog yourself while maintaining the same level of control. I was always amazed when most of the pickers-up on the shoots that I worked on, keen field triallers, would leave their labs at home when it came to them shooting on the beaters' 'cocking' days at the end of the season because they didn't want to risk spoiling them.

Thats ,probably why this was too difficult for many?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moBXEEJcChs

[Rothievale]

The thought of having to keep half an eye on my dug at the same time as carrying, mounting and firing a shotgun safely and actually hitting something without wounding it is not worth thinking of for me, it is all I can do to concentrate on handling my dug without f***ing up!! But I congratulate those that can do both and I can see what a pleasure it would be. I have tried shooting whilst someone else hunted their dug on rabbits and felt like Elma Thud! I couldn't do it without walking along with the gun mounted and that was quite alarming for all concerned!! and I just looked plain stupid and awkward! I'm just not a natural

[Dorset Cocker]

Earlier today, I had a conversation with someone who announced that a certain dog was to be mated to their bitch.

It took a couple of minutes for me to realise that the dog and bitch in question had the same sire. Now, someone who knows what they're doing might well decide this was an appropriate mating (probably not in this case) but the bitch owner looked at me in disbelief and questioned me when I told them. I just wonder at what stage they would all have got their heads together and looked at some pedigrees, or would they only have realised when it came time to register the pups?

The Kennel Club will no longer allow registration of brother/sister matings....so unless they lie and say another dog was the sire the pups will not be registered anyway so what is the point???

Sorry people I know this has nothing to do with this topic really, but someone else brought it up.
I think you'll find half brother-half sister matings are ok, providing the inbreeding coefficient is below 25%. It's full brother sister, father daughter etc that they won't accept anymore.

[Judy]

What a great thread, the first one on this forum in a good ferw months, that is actually worth a read, and hasny turned into some load off bullshit.

Naj- your posts are a breath of fresh air- albeit from a long time ago, you obviously have a wealth of knowledge with regards to older lines and the goings on back in the day, makes such a change from the general pish thats posted on here nowadays.

Nothing to stop you posting something worth reading, Scot-tish The more the merrier.

[t jack]

Some very refreshing posts on this topic, great to see some fresh posters posting on proper topics with real experiences

[cornishman]

I'm baffled by the need for all these blind retrieves with distractions & dummies on report etc & can only presume that they are a product of working tests If you're picking up with a dog then you can quite happily spend the day with straight forward 'marks' & 'sweeping up' without ever having to handle a dog on a retrieve. If you shoot over your own dog then it becomes quite simple - the dog hunts & finds & then is presented with a logical retrieve that rarely requires handling on if it has an ounce of gun sense. Shot rabbits require no handling in most cases. What you do require is a dog that patterns naturally, for you don't want to be whistling at it all day long. If the modern springer has lost this characteristic then it may answer why many handlers are switching to Cockers, for they appear to have been able to hang on to their balls, for the time being, at least.) I could not agree more , I train my dogs to handle but only use it when the dog asks me for help , by this i mean the dog is sent to retrieve allowed to hunt for it but if for some reason they dont find they will eventually look back to you, that is the time to handle the dog . I see a lot of handlers today that never give a dog time to learn game sense by hunting for the retrieve instead they blow the bloody whistle the minute the dog gets to the area of the retrieve and start directing traffic . In some ways this has been caused by trials because of the time constraints on the handlers in competion , if you are training a dog for your own sport ie rough shooting picking up etc then the ability to mark and hunt is what required , i see more and more traffic cops on shoots today WHY

[t jack]

There is nothing more satisfying than sending your dog for a blind and handling on a shoot or a trial and eyewiping the previously sent dogs, the first trial I entered with my GSP she eye wiped 2 dogs who failed on a runner, I still didn't win the trial though, bloody hare!

IMO handling a dog onto game/runners is very rewarding and it's not without reason hoped for in a trial or a shoot day, so you can wind up your fellow pickers up

[WGD]

It is satisfying being able to handle, I train mine to, but conversely I do give the dog time to get on with it.

I ran in a spaniel test and there was a drop to shot and marked retrieve during the hunt up. The cover was long (rashes) and I didn't mark the dummy - truthfully I was checking my dog had dropped to shot as she was young and the other dog running was buggering about.

When asked to send the dog I did so but because of the length of cover she short marked the dummy, which was upwind of her. I had no option but to leave her to get on with it, which I was happy to do as long as she hunted a sensible area. She did that and picked the dummy after perhaps 10 or 20 seconds. To me the dog showed initiative, determination and good enough sense to hold the area. We were awarded 6/10. I watched another dog in the same predicament later on in the day, the dog short marked and continually stopped hunting to seek direction from the handler - that dog scored 8/10. I know which dog I would rather have looking for game in thick cover...

[Naj]

The thought of having to keep half an eye on my dug at the same time as carrying, mounting and firing a shotgun safely and actually hitting something without wounding it is not worth thinking of for me, it is all I can do to concentrate on handling my dug without f***ing up!! But I congratulate those that can do both and I can see what a pleasure it would be. I have tried shooting whilst someone else hunted their dug on rabbits and felt like Elma Thud! I couldn't do it without walking along with the gun mounted and that was quite alarming for all concerned!! and I just looked plain stupid and awkward! I'm just not a natural

Seriously, Helen, you're missing a treat, & one with real practical advantages when it comes to training, even if you choose not to shoot when other guns are involved. Don't even think about trying to shoot in public, & even when you're confident enough to do so, I'd think twice about it if I couldn't choose my fellow guns carefully, especially with a young dog. Think of it as an additional skill in the bag reserved just for you & your dogs. Get yourself an open choked 20 bore or lighter 12 bore. Take a few lessons if needs be. Then whenever you can find a spare hour, take yourself off to some rabbity ground (any ground will do as long as you can shoot game over it), ALONE, with one of your older, trained & trusted dogs, & just shoot over it. When you eventually get he hang of it you can then transfer those skills to bringing on young dogs. I know that you have a partner who you can entrust with the shooting, but once you are confident in shooting over your own dog then I doubt that you'd allow anyone else to 'shoot in' a young dog for you, because it gives you so much control, much in the way that you'd never dream of having anyone else steady a young dog for you. It will also give you a confidence boost when running a dog you've shot over in trials. I guess that the downside is that if you cock it up, you've only yourself to blame.

Naj