Credible Cockers!

[Naj]

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had tried these tests on springers. The results might be just as surprising if enough dogs were tested. I know that one has been tested that was known to have been used to produce a sprocker but you'd need more than just one dog.

Naj

[Sgurr]

This is my post on the Proper Cockers fb page yesterday. May I also say how helpful the post David has quoted has been and the lady is also replying to questions and comments. Also please note AHT are offering a discount at the moment for profiling - code is HNY17

Moving forward rather than looking back I feel is the way to go. My kennel partner is Donald Graham and our Kennel Name is Sgurr - we have bred English Springer Spaniels since 2006. Our plan was to expand into Cockers but 2017 is not the year to make that gamble. So while some of you may feel I'm here under false pretences, I'm known to some of the Admin and I'd like to tell you what we have done/are doing at Sgurr to show the integrity of our breeding.

In 2009 I had the 3 breeding dogs at Sgurr DNA Profiled by the Kennel Club provider - I have the Certificates. I've been in touch this morning with the new provider of profiling services, the Animal Health Trust. AHT profile according to the International Standard ISAG 2006 and the 'old' KC profiles are not compatible. I still have the 3 old dogs (one is on borrowed time!) so I have ordered 8 Profile kits to cover all the Sgurr Springers.

The cost is £30 per dog (inc VAT) and the labs working to ISAG 2006 are validated every 2 years. The profile gives a unique identification of a dog - it says nothing about breed - but progeny of that dog can be traced. It costs £10 to validate the parentage of a pup from DNA Profiled parents. As well as getting the DNA profiles of the breeding and potential breeding dogs, we shall also validate parentage. On our dam lines we hope to have 3 generations of DNA profiled bitches.

Validating parentage of course validates pedigree and though it will take a while, looking forward, it will be possible to have five gen validated pedigrees. In future, apart from an exceptional case, we do not intend to use outside studs which are not DNA profiled.

In 2013 we exported a bitch pup to Holland and now grown up, she has been bred from and we have imported a bitch pup from her back to Sgurr. Under the Raad van Beheer (Dutch Kennel Club) requirements, pups and parents are DNA Profiled to ISAG 2006 so we already have the DNA Profile of that pup Bailey. When getting her swabbed for standard ESS DNA health tests, we also submitted a swab for DNA Profile to AHT. The microchip of the dog has also been validated in Holland and the UK and the two DNA Profiles done by two different laboratories in two different countries are identical.

I posted the two identical profiles on Fully Health Tested and Working Gundogs and Andy asked if he could post them to this group so you may have seen them. If not, and anyone wants to see them, I'll try to attach but I'm not techy. Just saying that this is the way forward as we see it at Sgurr - there may be issues with Springer pedigrees coming to the fore soon but we are trying to be as transparent as possible, going back where we can though primarily looking to the future.

At the moment, if you order a DNA Profile from AHT and insert the Discount Code HNY17 at the checkout you will get a 10% discount

[bird]

[Dawnrazor]

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had tried these tests on springers. The results might be just as surprising if enough dogs were tested. I know that one has been tested that was known to have been used to produce a sprocker but you'd need more than just one dog.

Naj

Tests on Springers have been done Naj, all I think have come back as pure springer, there seems to be tests from the lines discussed of "alleged" sprockers that consistently come back with springer blood.

[Miesque]

I'm very much qualified in the field also and have been banging the same drum since the start, these tests are nothing but a bit of fun for your rescue dog

[Miesque]

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had tried these tests on springers. The results might be just as surprising if enough dogs were tested. I know that one has been tested that was known to have been used to produce a sprocker but you'd need more than just one dog.

Naj

Tests on Springers have been done Naj, all I think have come back as pure springer, there seems to be tests from the lines discussed of "alleged" sprockers that consistently come back with springer blood.

No they don't. There's even been a repeat test of the same dog with a different result. Credible? Hardly

[Dawnrazor]

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had tried these tests on springers. The results might be just as surprising if enough dogs were tested. I know that one has been tested that was known to have been used to produce a sprocker but you'd need more than just one dog.

Naj

Tests on Springers have been done Naj, all I think have come back as pure springer, there seems to be tests from the lines discussed of "alleged" sprockers that consistently come back with springer blood.

No they don't. There's even been a repeat test of the same dog with a different result. Credible? Hardly

I stand corrected, can you point us to these results?

[Naj]

I'm very much qualified in the field also and have been banging the same drum since the start, these tests are nothing but a bit of fun for your rescue dog

I gave you a name check earlier. Qualified opinion will ultimately be the judge of this.

[westcountry]

I'm very much qualified in the field also and have been banging the same drum since the start, these tests are nothing but a bit of fun for your rescue dog

Do we have a rescue dog?

[David]

Would be interesting to hear if anyone had tried these tests on springers. The results might be just as surprising if enough dogs were tested. I know that one has been tested that was known to have been used to produce a sprocker but you'd need more than just one dog.

Naj

Tests on Springers have been done Naj, all I think have come back as pure springer, there seems to be tests from the lines discussed of "alleged" sprockers that consistently come back with springer blood.

There's also test that cone back pure and cross for the same parents but the counter argument is then to blame it on a false pedigree.