Quartering

[Judy]

To me this comes back to whether you are expecting the dog to progress forwards in a series of 'U's , a zigzag or a figure of eight pattern. If the dog is stopped and recalled it will progress in zigzags and miss ground, in a perfect world they need to go across then take a bite forward and come back across to the other side. As they cross the front of you they should be close so you need to be moving forward to take in that 'bite' so that the dog is always close to you when it passes in front. Assuming you are walking upwind!

Judy

[Snicklefritz]

Your description of a good pattern makes sense to me. I was a gunner at a recent upland test, and one dog in particular did about the opposite. He worked quickly along the trees on the right side. Since, I was the outside gun, I had to do a lot of trotting and some outright running (they made me stop when I started flushing birds from 40 yards away with the trembling earth) to stay in position for a shot. Hated that dog and would never knowingly hunt over it if I had a choice.

Other dogs did as you described and we hunted at a brisk walk with occasional stops along the way. Much more pleasant and effective.

[trekmoor]

In this country Snick the dog that just straight out along the treeline would probably be deemed to be out of control or maybe boring into the wind.....It would probably be put out of the trial . I've only ever read about U.S. spaniel trials ,I believe they are ran a little differently to ours . The dogs are expected to be wider ranging and to make an instant flush or even to catch the bird. It sounds like it would be right up Charlies street !

Were the dogs working on dizzied and placed birds Snick ?

Wullie

[Snicklefritz]

Yes, wullie. The birds were dizzied and hidden in straw. In a UKC hunt test if the dog catches the bird it isn't counted as a flush, so they try again. Can be a pain when it's raining and the birds don't want to fly anyway. As for retrieves for this dog, I am reminded of an old John Denver tune..'I took two shots, got no ducks, and cold, cold hands'.

[Mig]

Gosh, I've read all this and it's really interesting what's said, although I have to admit some of it is right over my head. Anyway, my understanding was that I wasn't to get her to quarter using food as it would slow her down, however, tonight I took 9 small plant pots and half a sausage into the back garden and laid them out - 1 pot to the right, two to the left, three to the right and three to the left so that we could quarter up the garden (grass was cut on Sunday so I improvised again!). I put a bit of sausage under certain pots. I let her watch me and when I had finished I sent her out to the right (pot number 1). She ran right to pot selection number 4 (that's where she'd seen the last bit of sausage being placed! ) So I placed a further piece under pot 1 and sent her again and we quartered very well to the end. We did it again and again it went well. I used the whistle to turn her (or basically call her over to the other side).

I hear what you are saying about the turn whistle but I 'think' she needs to be taught to quarter and it seems the right way for me to get her formation. Judy you spoke of the shapes and I'm looking to get the figure of 8. After giving this a little more thought I think I might need to shape my path in a figure of 8 to better the shape she's learning to take. I am going into the wind and will continue to do so.

Thanks for pointing the eating grass thread out to me Iain. I'd missed that one and it really puts my mind at rest. I thought I'd got a dud! Which didn't make sense because she's so keen on hunting normally and she gets on with it really well in the house and back garden (oh and in any hedgerow, forest, swamp area, bog .....). Now I know I'm not the only one with a wannabe cow.

We are a long way off quartering but we are having more fun now and this must be more than half the battle.

Mig

[Judy]

Why a figure of eight? To me that misses ground and covers other ground twice..... Also the dog ends up working behind you at some point, assuming it passes close to the front of you as it moves across.

Judy

[Mig]

Because that's what I thought I should be aiming for. At the meet on Saturday that's what they guy had said. If not a figure of 8 then what? Should I just be moving her from left to right etc in straight lines - well it would look more like a snake shape really. You see I thought that she should come across me and then head into the wind ie forwards, that to turn backwards was a no no.

You mention above U's (which I think is what I'm describing above as a snake), fig of 8 and zig zag.

Sorry I'm so numb on this Judy.

Mig

[Judy]

No you aren't being numb its something difficult to describe without using my hands!! Best to look at a spaniel training book, they all have patterns to do and the ones to avoid neatly drawn out for you.

The dog goes out to one side then turns forwards, comes back towards you crossing close in front and goes out the other side before turning forwards again but remember each time the dog crosses you, you too have moved forwards so the dog is doing more a series of parallel lines turning forward by a similar amount to the distance you have walked at each end of its beat.

In a perfect world.... Upwind.....

In practise the little darlings are diving into cover and deviating to scents instead. IF they haven't boggedoff completely.

[Snicklefritz]

I think something needs to be said about the cover itself. An extreme example:

Situation 1 - Your walking up a mown field with hedgerows on either side. The birds are not likely be standing out in a homegenous distribution in the mown field, they'll be along the edges. So, sending the dog on a methodical, vacumm cleaner hunt over every inch of the mown field is a tremendous waste of energy.

Situation 2 - Your walking up a mown field with hedgerows on either side, and there are occasional pockets of cover distributed throughout the mown portion. Birds will congregate around these patches of cover (called 'objectives') If the dog does a vacuum cleaner search he will eventually also get to all the 'objectives' and hunt them. But, the dog is still wasting time on a lot of unfruitful ground. So, you want the dog to hunt the edges and the 'objectives'.

Situation 3 - The field your walking on is not mown, but contains cover high and dense enough to hold birds at any point, but there are 'objective' patches of cover. You want the dog to cover the ground methodically, but focus on the cover.

Situation 4 - The field is no longer a field, just an expanse of moderate to densly distributed pockets of cover. Here you want the dog to hunt methodically and to hunt all the cover. I you hope your a good shot!

Many versatile dog owners take the position that natural ability trumps training and that the birds themselves will teach the dog about where the birds will be. That's an appealing thought. The retriever guys tend to want to control the dog's hunt more, and are accused of being robot dogs. I don't see why we can't have a dog that naturally hunts the cover, but can also be directed to hunt specific 'objectives' in the process.

[Judy]

But in basic training you aim for a good pattern, probably well away from 'interesting' cover. One of the best untrained (ahem) quarterers I've seen is my liver Flatcoat she really works the wind when sweeping through after a drive, think her Mummy was half setter! Think I might attach pup to her collar and work them as a pair like a young hound and an older one.