Line Breeding

[Judy]

It may not create problems but if practised too closely it certainly embeds them in your line. It is also proven to reduce fertility over a period of time. If you are lucky you will use two closely related dogs who don't share too many of the same genes if you are unlucky they will.

[Hales Smut]

English setters bred by Laverack, Elhew pointers by Robert Whele, Moanruad Irish setters by John Nash, all were bred rather close. Some very close and all these kennels are examples in their breeds. It's a pitty that today there is no real line of ESS. A true line of prime working dogs where the breeder is not running from champion to champion, but breeds with a goal in mind. Dogs that produce what is expected. If you breed close, only use the prime examples for breeding and cull the rest. I am not throwing the first stone, I've made mistakes like anybody else. But it's not through outcrossing that you get dogs that breed true to type ( workingstandard).

[flush1]

In ireland the bridevalley & sprucehill line of springers were all heavily line bred.it proved to be very sucessful with several ftch & ftw coming from these matings not to mention all the countless hard shooting dogs that resulted.they realised when they got these near perfect hunting machines that the only way to reproduce them was to breed them back into themselves.

bill kelliher of the renouned monalue line of spaniels bred his irish championship winning bitch(monalue elderberry lady) to her son which resulted in a super litter of which a bitch out of the mating won here in ireland before going to the continent and being made a champion there.i saw 3 of the litter which were clones of their dam,having her power hunting & fierce drive in cover.

these men knew what they were doing & we would have nothing to hunt the nearly gameless country of the west of ireland today only for them!

[diplomat]

In ireland the bridevalley & sprucehill line of springers were all heavily line bred.it proved to be very sucessful with several ftch & ftw coming from these matings not to mention all the countless hard shooting dogs that resulted.they realised when they got these near perfect hunting machines that the only way to reproduce them was to breed them back into themselves.

bill kelliher of the renouned monalue line of spaniels bred his irish championship winning bitch(monalue elderberry lady) to her son which resulted in a super litter of which a bitch out of the mating won here in ireland before going to the continent and being made a champion there.i saw 3 of the litter which were clones of their dam,having her power hunting & fierce drive in cover.

these men knew what they were doing & we would have nothing to hunt the nearly gameless country of the west of ireland today only for them!

Firstly hi to all as this my first post.
I know a dog out of that monalue inbred mating,i shot over him maybe half a dozen times & would have rated him as one of the best i have seen.big strong dog that looked liked his sire but with the build of elderberry lady.at the time i had nothing to breed to him but last year i had a young bitch that i regarded as worth breeding from,so on contacting the dogs owner i was gutted to hear he had been sent to france for breeding.
As far as i know both men that had the bridevalley and monalue lines have stopped breeding.The sprucehill line is still there but it is nothing like what it used to be since the days of sprucehill alfie,scilla,patsy etc.

[springer-spaniel]

im no scientist but in the wild animals all mate within their groups, some more tightly formed smaller groups than others, inevetably inbreeding does take place at a high degree. the superior stock these close inbreedings produce, survive and pass on their genes. if a sub standard or genetically defected animal was to result from inbreeding, it would very quickly be disreguarded from its group and probably die being unable to survive or adapt to its niche.

so in short linebreeding shouldnt be frowned upon imo, only if the matings result in substandard stock or abnormal stock is when something has gone wrong.

im planning on putting uncle to niece and dont even consider it as a close mating, we have to do this to bring back the genes of yesteryear which have so sadly been diluted to the point we dont know what to expect from one litter to the next anymore.

aa good friend of mine has put half brother to half sister with good results.

[peterbeater]

In ireland the bridevalley & sprucehill line of springers were all heavily line bred.it proved to be very sucessful with several ftch & ftw coming from these matings not to mention all the countless hard shooting dogs that resulted.they realised when they got these near perfect hunting machines that the only way to reproduce them was to breed them back into themselves.

bill kelliher of the renouned monalue line of spaniels bred his irish championship winning bitch(monalue elderberry lady) to her son which resulted in a super litter of which a bitch out of the mating won here in ireland before going to the continent and being made a champion there.i saw 3 of the litter which were clones of their dam,having her power hunting & fierce drive in cover.

these men knew what they were doing & we would have nothing to hunt the nearly gameless country of the west of ireland today only for them!

Great post. . The bottom paragraph sums it up with the line "these men knew what they were doing". A lot do not. The modern day gundog owner seems to join a forum to ask how to make thier dog sit and 6 months later they are on telling people how to breed. Sad really

[bannvale gundogs]

In ireland the bridevalley & sprucehill line of springers were all heavily line bred.it proved to be very sucessful with several ftch & ftw coming from these matings not to mention all the countless hard shooting dogs that resulted.they realised when they got these near perfect hunting machines that the only way to reproduce them was to breed them back into themselves.

bill kelliher of the renouned monalue line of spaniels bred his irish championship winning bitch(monalue elderberry lady) to her son which resulted in a super litter of which a bitch out of the mating won here in ireland before going to the continent and being made a champion there.i saw 3 of the litter which were clones of their dam,having her power hunting & fierce drive in cover.

these men knew what they were doing & we would have nothing to hunt the nearly gameless country of the west of ireland today only for them!

Great post. . The bottom paragraph sums it up with the line "these men knew what they were doing". A lot do not. The modern day gundog owner seems to join a forum to ask how to make thier dog sit and 6 months later they are on telling people how to breed. Sad really

here here

[vicky payne]

Line breeding is when the pups are born F.T.Ch.'s but it is called inbreeding when the pups are born with two heads.

Wullie

I love this line and may quote you often!

[Polmaise]

Line breeding is when the pups are born F.T.Ch.'s but it is called inbreeding when the pups are born with two heads.

Wullie

I love this line and may quote you often!

It's not his original quote!

so you may want to look at copyrights.

[rickyspringer]

Firstl i am no breeder, I have never reared a litter, but people who i do know who breed for purpose and function generally breed very close, extremely close as outcrossing in there opinions is diluting the quality which they know of, "culling" is the key as mentioned, and to be honest alot of modern day breeders wouldn't dream of that, as no stock is held, most is sold to gain the £..

Some great opinions on this thread, and I for one is all for line breeding, but remember as always know the dogs, and only breed quality to quality...

RS