Great lesson!!

[David]

I could teach someone to swim ... they go on to be a champion wild swimmer and win races across the Tay several times a year ... I have never even dipped my pinkie in the Tay let alone swum in it (good grief there are jellyfish in there ) ... does that invalidate me as a swimming teacher? of course not because I can teach swimming in a swimming pool (sans critters) - in fact come to that how many swimming teachers even get in the water to teach swimming? hmmmm

A teacher/trainer helps people learn a skill - if the teacher is good at teaching that skill then the person can go on to develop that skill to the limit of their potential (not the trainer's potential). Have you ever wondered why we don't need accompanied by a teacher our whole lives? maybe because they give us a foundation to build our life on.

I didn't see Lucy say she went for training for trials or tests ... I saw her say she asked for Robert Polmaise's help with a couple of issues she has encountered with her dogs. I also read that she now has work to do with each dog before her next lesson - so she is not suggesting that after the lesson her dogs are the finished article or could be trials winners tomorrow ... she is going to use the skill taught to her to develop her and the dogs potential.

Lucy I am glad you got so much out of the lesson - that is how a good teacher/trainer should leave their pupils feeling ... motivated and with a direction to travel to achieve their goal.

Cathy

No you can certainly teach people to swim, its just you wouldn't be a very good swimming teacher and should someone really want to swim well they would be well advised to go elsewhere for swimming lessons.

Not strictly true. Some off the best coaches at the highest levels of all sports have never achieved themselves. My Daughter swam at regional level and in my opinion her best coach over the years had never been a competitive swimmer. She understood the mechanics, could get these across to the kid's and could work out how to correct the parts of a stroke that were going wrong.

[LucyLab]

I didn't see Lucy say she went for training for trials or tests ... I saw her say she asked for Robert Polmaise's help with a couple of issues she has encountered with her dogs. I also read that she now has work to do with each dog before her next lesson - so she is not suggesting that after the lesson her dogs are the finished article or could be trials winners tomorrow ... she is going to use the skill taught to her to develop her and the dogs potential.

Cathy

Thanks Cathy, couldn't have said it better myself! I know nothing about Robert's history with competitions and honestly, I couldn't care less. I have friends who trial, so if I ever wanted to go down that route I have plenty of people I can talk to, and ask their opinions on my dogs. However, none of my friends are behaviourists, let alone behaviourists with a wealth of gundoggy knowledge! I'm pretty darn sure that a few of my friends would be capable of taking my Lab for a couple of months and he would end up totally silent....for them! But I don't want that. He is my dog and I am fiercely proud of the level of training that I have achieved with him. Robert is helping me to figure out how I can undo my mistakes and teach Murphy a 'new' mindset, all with positive training and (so far) very positive results.

Just to toss my two cents into the trialer vs teacher argument - I spent over 20yrs of my life training to be a professional musician. I went to one of the top music schools, then later one of the top music colleges. I was passionate about my subject, but never passionate about the competitive aspect. I entered competitions, because that's what everyone did, but I did not win any, because it just didn't appeal to me enough to really try. I loved playing the violin, but I did not enjoy any aspect of competing for jobs when it came to playing at a professional level. I didn't have anything in common with the people who I encountered and after a particularly depressing few months performing in Italy, I packed it all in. Was I at the top of my field? Certainly not. But I bloody well knew what it took to get there! Over the next few years, I dabbled in teaching the violin, something I had never been remotely interested in...but it was something to do. To my horror, it turned out I was very good at it. People sent their kids to study with me, ESPECIALLY in the run up to an exam/competition/scholarship audition....things that I had done myself, so had plenty of experience of. Did they come to me because I had got full marks/won competitions/won lots of scholarships?? No, they bloody well didn't. They came to me because I was extremely good at helping other people to work through their problems and achieve their potential. Just because you don't reach for the stars yourself, doesn't in any way mean you're not capable of showing others the way...

Sorry if that sounded ranty, my fingers rather ran away with me All I wanted to do with this thread was jump up and down enthusiastically because I'm so excited about the progress I have made with someone whose ideas absolutely fascinate me.

Lucy

Ps:Oh...and by the way...show me a retriever trialer who has the same history of taking the time to fix this particular problem, rather than writing the dog off as vocal and moving it on and I will very gladly drive however long it takes to meet them and hear their expertise!

[RedWC]

Glad you enjoyed your lesson and it was obviously highly beneficial - that's what matters most

[trekmoor]

I admit that so far I have never succeeded in teaching a dog that is a persistent whiner during drives to cease whining permanently. I can remove one or more of the triggers that cause the whine when not at big drives but not during them. The birds falling all around and the birds flying and the shotguns firing and the other dogs all running for retrieves plus the noise from the beaters has always negated my efforts at achieving a permanent "cure." There were too many "triggers" that I could do nothing about if I wanted to do my own job at shoots.

Wullie

[Naj]

I didn't see Lucy say she went for training for trials or tests ... I saw her say she asked for Robert Polmaise's help with a couple of issues she has encountered with her dogs. I also read that she now has work to do with each dog before her next lesson - so she is not suggesting that after the lesson her dogs are the finished article or could be trials winners tomorrow ... she is going to use the skill taught to her to develop her and the dogs potential.

Cathy

Thanks Cathy, couldn't have said it better myself! I know nothing about Robert's history with competitions and honestly, I couldn't care less. I have friends who trial, so if I ever wanted to go down that route I have plenty of people I can talk to, and ask their opinions on my dogs. However, none of my friends are behaviourists, let alone behaviourists with a wealth of gundoggy knowledge! I'm pretty darn sure that a few of my friends would be capable of taking my Lab for a couple of months and he would end up totally silent....for them! But I don't want that. He is my dog and I am fiercely proud of the level of training that I have achieved with him. Robert is helping me to figure out how I can undo my mistakes and teach Murphy a 'new' mindset, all with positive training and (so far) very positive results.

Just to toss my two cents into the trailer vs teacher argument - I spent over 20yrs of my life training to be a professional musician. I went to one of the top music schools, then later one of the top music colleges. I was passionate about my subject, but never passionate about the competitive aspect. I entered competitions, because that's what everyone did, but I did not win any, because it just didn't appeal to me enough to really try. I loved playing the violin, but I did not enjoy any aspect of competing for jobs when it came to playing at a professional level. I didn't have anything in common with the people who I encountered and after a particularly depressing few months performing in Italy, I packed it all in. Was I at the top of my field? Certainly not. But I bloody well knew what it took to get there! Over the next few years, I dabbled in teaching the violin, something I had never been remotely interested in...but it was something to do. To my horror, it turned out I was very good at it. People sent their kids to study with me, ESPECIALLY in the run up to an exam/competition/scholarship audition....things that I had done myself, so had plenty of experience of. Did they come to me because I had got full marks/won competitions/won lots of scholarships?? No, they bloody well didn't. They came to me because I was extremely good at helping other people to work through their problems and achieve their potential. Just because you don't reach for the stars yourself, doesn't in any way mean you're not capable of showing others the way...

Sorry if that sounded ranty, my fingers rather ran away with me All I wanted to do with this thread was jump up and down enthusiastically because I'm so excited about the progress I have made with someone whose ideas absolutely fascinate me.

Lucy

Ps:Oh...and by the way...show me a retriever trialer who has the same history of taking the time to fix this particular problem, rather than writing the dog off as vocal and moving it on and I will very gladly drive however long it takes to meet them and hear their expertise!

Great post.

I was going to comment that no amount of experience training with top trialers would make me any better at tests or trials, simply because I don't enjoy competition. No comparison, but Peter Moxon stopped trialling due to 'competition nerves' but he continued to make a living as a professional trainer & his training manuals are still used by trainers to this day, long after his death. And you make a good point that most competitive trainers would write-off such a dog as yours & would quite likely be at a loss as to how to remedy the problem. Polmaise manages to make a living out of training & sorting out dog/handler problems & takes on all-comers, which I would suggest is as challenging (perhaps more so) than simply cherry picking pups/dogs with potential & concentrating on them or sticking to gundog related problems only. He's 'living the (his) dream', so good luck to him.

Naj

ps. You any good with guitar duffers with thumbs instead of fingers, Lucy.

[crackerd]

ps. You any good with guitar duffers with thumbs instead of fingers, Lucy.

Naj, funny you should ask, because if Lucy can't help, this gentleman's name came up just this morning in "conversation" with Master Polmaise: http://woodythurman.com/meet-woody/

If you need references - for the "pickin' and grinnin'" - MIck, Chuck Leavell and Charlie Daniels know him well...

MG

[Naj]

I do like a bit of Blue Grass, MG.

Naj

[LucyLab]

Haha fraid not Naj! I spent the Summer I turned 12 teaching myself a couple of Eric Clapton songs....just because I fancied trying guitar for a change...sounded pretty darn good, but to this day I've no idea how I managed it! Pretty sure if I tried to do it now, I wouldn't make as good a job of it. Most likely it was simply a case of being absolutely determined, mixed with youthful conviction...if only I'd had the good sense to try gundog training instead...

[PatG]

Lucy, loved your response/rant. One doesn't have to be proven and successful in trials to be a good teacher -- it's all about the ability to read your pupils/clients/dogs and .....communication. Robert has the ability to say it as he sees it and then try to teach you what it is you need to do to achieve what YOU are aiming for. After a career in education I can safely say I have met few teachers with the natural ability that Robert has ....he is inspirational and I'm so pleased you are getting so much out of getting advice/guidance from him. Looking forward to hearing the next instalment.

[Megsdad]

As a newbie to gundogs I doubt I'd have persevered with the training if I hadn't encountered Pol.
I was told by Mr O to sell my bitch as a pet and get another pup. Other triallist 'trainers' were similarly unhelpful.
Watching Robert work his picking up dogs was all the proof I needed that he knew what he was talking about.
I stuck with some principles that he suggested and now have a great working dog.
I also sampled a very rare malt or two and enjoyed fine company!