How would you guys deal with this?

[Judy]

Having seen a so-called professional trainer smack a dog about the head for dropping a dummy rather than delivering to hand I can imagine why this lad is hand shy. Time and patience will resolve the issue, you just have to find a shooting home which has both in abundance! Simple!

[Cass]

It sounds like he just simply doesn't have the training. Start at the basics and move forward.

[Rascal]

Not sure how you work that one out Cass?

Had a very interesting day so far, progress is being made...

I'll update this later on in the week...

Rascal

[Cass]

If he has no interest in bumpers its probably just because he hasn't learned to be interested in them. Maybe you need to build up his excitement over them.

[Naj]

It's not lack of interest in bumpers but the delivery which is the problem, as I understand it.

[Hepe]

I would spend lots of time indoors and in the garden shaping the delivery and trust in that. That's what i did with Scylla as a pup when she rather wanted to hide than give. It was rather quickly solved cos she didn't had a bad history being a pup and all but i still believe it's worth a try. Also, some dogs really really need to know EXACTLY how you want it done to feel safe. Do ponder if this dog is one of those feeling secure only if they know exactly how to deliver and if so, decide on one way to deliver and stick to it. With Scylla i didn't care how she delivered, i just wanted her to WANT to deliver, how we did it got sorted out by time but she's a very confident gal.

Helene

[Rascal]

Well as you will have gathered I didn't stay away from the damn place but I didn't bring him home either as having thought about it, that wasn't fair on him. I've got six weeks of Physio before my first op and I thought if I can at least get him happy with folks hands before he went it would be worth the effort....

So I have been spending a lot of time down at the kennels...In fact one night TBWH asked who I was when I came home..

I found something he really liked to eat and would lick off my fingers..pedigree chum with marrow bone jelly....I had very interesting smelling fingers for a while, once he was happy licking it off my fingers I gradually got him following my hands and quickened my hand movements.

Also every time I set him off hunting I did it by sitting him facing me and lightly touching his nose initially with the back of my hand and then after a few times I just put my hand down and waited. Once he was regularly seeking to touch my hand for permission to hunt I turned my hand around until he was putting his nose onto my palm and then gently cupping my hand, sort of target training in a way but instead of an edible reward a hunt reward...and boy does this chap love to hunt...

One of the other helpers was following this routine too...Basically anything he wanted; out the kennel, vehicle, in the vehicle, his dinner, released from a sit or just a fuss to get that he had to put his nose onto our palm which we then gently cupped. It didn't take that long for him to work that one out and be happy about it.....In the last couple of days he's doing it on a recall too which I'm dead chuffed about as I've put no pressure on him for that,so he's much happier..

I also started massaging him in small circular movements along his flanks spine towards his shoulders till his big broon eyes turned all goo....Then carried on up his neck and eventually around his head, ears and under his chin. I'd do that in a morning several times and at night with the other helpers doing it at other times of the day..

I believe Wullie and Naj are both right in as much I think he's been run down and picked up by his jowls and ears once to often. I suspect that's been done more than once with a retrieve in his mouth too....Hopefully not game.... That in turn caused the spitting problem and in an effort to rectify that a badly executed force fetch has been tried...

Thankfully I'm pretty sure he's not been kicked although I've discovered he's extremely wary of my stick. I'll leave that one for a bit though I think and for now I'm not using one. If I fall over he thinks that's just the best thing and runs over to lick me to death..

I took him to a picking up mates a couple of times over the weekend who has ducks, chucks, guinea fowl, sheep, coos, a couple of ponds and wabbits. He was steady around the sheep on a lead and off, same with the coos but I let me mate test the latter one out.... He showed interest in the birds but didn't chase ow't and went up several gears on the wabbits not totally steady, moving on a couple of flushes but not far and to be honest not bad at all...

We gave him a break and gave my lot summat to do and then my mate got a gun out and he was excited by the sight of that! Took him in the pen again and this time whilst he was hunting my mate from a good distance let a shot off....He immediately stopped but didn't sit and showed really keen interest at where the shot had been fired..A bit closer same thing so he's been shot over judging by his reactions to both the sight of the gun and the sound of it, he's certainly not gun shy...

My mate likes him a lot so every night since the weekend I've been taking him there with my mob and we've worked with him...He jumps obstacles like a stag, swims well, Sunday being the perfect day for that with much carplooshing much to Rascal's disgust. I haven't used a retrieve yet but my lot go in just for the hell of it (apart from Rascal who will happily go in but only for a retrieve) and so does he with plenty of confidence. He doesn't want to bog off and does seem really eager to please and happy to be with you....

In and around the rescue kennels he would pick up and carry a bone and not drop it, I left him alone initially while he was doing that...I'd been doing the massage routine with him sat on top of his sleeping box (a place board of sorts) and one night, whoopsadaisy his bone was on there.....wonder how that got up there...? He picked it up and held it whilst I carried on with the massage routine......I repeated that for a wee while making no attempt to ask for it....Then after about the third time of doing this routine I moved my hands under his chin cupped them and said dead, bingo he released it into my cupped hand and he got it straight back. I'm at the stage now where we are playing give and take with his bone with him taking it on his name and me crooning gentle praise, before he goes back in his kennel so it's the last thing I do with him whenever I leave him and I'll move it on from there....

He's a relatively mentally soft but hard hunting dog and I think someone's misread him as a mentally hard dog possibly....He's also a big thickset dog and he's now fondly known as "Hank the tank" or just plain Hank, it sort of suits him and his lovely nature. I can't see for the life of me why he's been roughly handled and certainly not with a stick at the minute unless it's purely for running in and that's the handlers fault not the dogs.....For not training him properly in the first place or for allowing it to develop and quite frankly bloody poor imagination when dealing with it.

Best bit is I think me picking up mate is going to have him, he like me can see the potential in him. Which would be a great outcome for him coz me mates a nice bloke and he would have a really lovely home. He's lost one of his labs to cancer so is short for a picking up dog in his team, He's got a Cocker youngster which he's place board training and I've enjoyed watching that whilst I've been there...During the winter he'll be out most days and I reckon he'll be good on the grouse moors. He's obviously been kept amongst other dogs and kennelled and he enjoys other dogs company and my mates got several dogs...

Over the next few weeks we'll put some more work in and see where we are...He really needs a trim and that'll be a clipper job coz he's got knots in places that are tight to his skin and I really need to sort them out now he's happier being handled.. As long as he's happy with the noise of the clippers I don't think it will be too much of a problem. I'll switch em on near him and if he's ok with that, run them over him with the guard on for a start and gauge his reaction. I don't want to undo where we've got to and get into a battle over it, he won't die from a few knots for a little while longer...

We also need to sort the stick issue and continue building the retrieve back up but I've got the foundations of that going now...The stick thing judging by his reaction when I without even thinking about it, pulled it out of my truck last weekend will take a good while longer I think. And I'm not sure that ducking the problem now is the way to go either, need to mull that one over for a bit..

Rascal

[Merlin]

Sounds like you're a great job and a very interesting read too...

[Mike A]

Potentially great out come Please keep us informed of his progress !

[shropshirelad]

Sounds like a great little fella.. Just goes to show what can be done with gentle kindness and dedication.