Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Discuss any aspect of training you have, ask questions, share tips and advice for any breed of gundog.
Rough_mut
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Rough_mut »

RAH wrote:In the same vein as you RM, my regret is simple: not starting sooner.

It absolutely twists my stomach when people say how natural Hattie is at her job ... Why did I not take the breeder's advice and just give it a go when she was younger?

Still, the journey has been fab and you learn so much from your own mistakes. As long as each subsequent dog gets a little better than the previous, I will be happy :)
As just mentioned to SP, mine went on a shoot at a mature age but with very little training and to be fair he did better than some of the dogs there however I do wonder what of I had got him into it earlier?

He's had a well balanced varied life from being abseiled of crags to sleeping in a bivi bag with me in the middle of a blizzard, so no regrets for the life he has had, but if anything I would say this confirms just how much these dogs are made for this!

RM
Rough_mut
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Rough_mut »

scot-ish wrote:pushing the dog on too early when it was young, being eager to have a dog that could be shot over, before the dog was polished in the early stages, ultimately cost me from being able to run her in trials.
hopefully not make the same mistake with the pup i have just now
This is going to sound daft, please don't take it that way, but is trailing something that generates an income?

RM
Springfield Pointers
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Springfield Pointers »

Rough_mut wrote:Its very interesting to read some common themes...

Some saying they wish they have kept the softer quieter dogs\bitches whilst others prefer the fire breathers?

Also some saying they regret rushing whilst some advocate getting out on to game as early as possible?
It should be noted that there is most certainly not a "one size fits all" when it comes to working bird dogs. What might be a good fit for someone, might be wholly unacceptable for someone else. Some people may not even realise what dogs suit them better until they have been through a few and understand how their own personalities and mannerisms effect how dogs develop (or not).

A dog that might be a firecracker for Mr. A, and thrive on firm control, lots of action and noise, might well be too much dog for Mr. B, who prefers mollycoddling and loving whispers and shielding the dog from too much of this and too much of that. In the final wash, little matters however, it is about personal preference and enjoyment. But it is important to identify what you want and what you want to achieve. It is also important to understand what dog is a better fit for your personality and end goals. Unfortunately, without exposure to the (gundog) game one will battle to identify what works for them - everybody who has succeeded with dogs, be it hunting or trialling, has ruined a few due to lack of compatibility.

Further to that it should also be said that getting a dog into game early is not necessarily "rushing it". The fundamentals are obviously a requirement, but exposing a young dog to game under the right guidance should not be seen as "rushing". The train of thought that dogs should not be exposed to game until they are goose stepping and polished to complying to every command in a millisecond is something that confuses most people. And it speaks more to the person training the dog that the dog itself. Plainly put, dogs need game to develop. This cannot be done with tennis balls and hidden dummies.

Dogs can be developed very well on game, in fact without game, I would battle to get the dog where I want it. Early, consistent and controlled exposure to game results in confident and clever hunting dogs. Delaying this and substituting it with overtraining and drills with other things in the hope that the dog will hold it together once finally let loose in a field of pheasant is usually met with frustration, much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Thereafter the frustrated handler posts the most common question I see on this forum: "my dog is 100% steady to dummies, recall and stop to whistle - but when she saw a pheasant..."
Naj
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Naj »

:clap: wot he said. :-D

I also think that temperament is everything. There's a common misconception that dogs are either soft or hot and never the twain shall meet, but without a malleable temperament a fire breather is always a liability and often requires heavy handed treatment, and much of the admiration for anyone who succeeds with them is because they are hard enough to handle them. But you can get hot dogs with easy temperaments. The problem comes when handlers won't adapt their techniques, assume that a hot dog is also a hard one and end up squashing the dog or coming to logger-heads with it. And many of the dogs that are typecast as being hard-headed or untrainable are simply the result of inadequate training skills. It's easier to blame the dog than accept the fact that it's actually a problem with your approach and expertise that is at fault.

Naj
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Alice
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Alice »

Rough_mut wrote:
Alice wrote:Not doing my homework properly with my cocker, I wanted a chocolate bitch NOW and I didn't get her from a breeder who knew what they were doing- as a result, I ended up with a dog that was much harder to train than one that had been bred right would've been.
I have no idea of your experience and I myself have half trained one single dog, however how do you know for sure the one you have is so much harder? Surely even within the same litter there are differences and each handler will have preferences to the types of personaillies with dogs?

RM
Good question, bascially cos she wasn't really bred to be trainable, the subsequent ones I've had from breeders who had more of a clue and who worked/trialled the pup's parents to a greater extent than 'take it beating and loose it off' have been massively easier. My regret is essentially that I went for the right colour and the right sex over the right type of breeding!
cheers,
Alice.

A spaniel is a vehicle for a nose
Emperor Mong
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Emperor Mong »

My mistakes are too many to mention. I am an amateur but I enjoy training my dogs - but just as peg dogs.

With my current lad, there is one mistake that really stands out. I had him brilliantly steady on a drive. He would sit by my side without being on the lead until I sent him off for the first retrieve at the end of the drive. Birds could drop around him and he wouldn't move. He'd even learnt to wait for the horn/whistle that marked the end of the drive before looking at me for the command to go. #Smug

Then, I was a walking gun at the end of the line (and a long way away). In the middle of the drive, I wounded a bird that flew far from the line. It began to run. There were no pickers up around. What harm would it do? I sent the dog for the pheasant.

Doh! It would turn out that it was a phenomenally dumb thing to do.

He retrieved it but immediately realised that the rules had changed. He was now free to retrieve any birds shot during the drive. He now would not listen to me at all nor sit at my side during any drive.

The remedy, thankfully, was simple - put a lead on him. With a lead on, the rules are stay by my side - so I can now have him by my peg and release him at the end of the drive. He doesn't pull (I have him attached to my cartridge bag rather than a tether).

Lesson learnt. Never change the rules. Ever.
vicky payne
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by vicky payne »

Rough_mut wrote:
scot-ish wrote:pushing the dog on too early when it was young, being eager to have a dog that could be shot over, before the dog was polished in the early stages, ultimately cost me from being able to run her in trials.
hopefully not make the same mistake with the pup i have just now
This is going to sound daft, please don't take it that way, but is trailing something that generates an income?

RM
:lol: :lol: :lol: Not directly! Most trials offer prize money that is less than the entry fee, maybe a bag of dog food. BUT there is prestige to be had. Pups from a trial winning bitch should be worth more/sell more easily, and a FTCH dog is the most popular for use at stud.

Back to the original question...sometimes I think my biggest regret was ever starting!
chrokeva
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by chrokeva »

I think my biggest regret is that I did not pick one training method and stick with it. I spent a lot of time switching from one training method to another and ended up confusing my dog (and myself).
Judy
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Judy »

chrokeva wrote:I think my biggest regret is that I did not pick one training method and stick with it. I spent a lot of time switching from one training method to another and ended up confusing my dog (and myself).
I have a feeling we all do that! :lol:
In life, it is important to know when to stop arguing with people and simply let them be wrong.
Dummy1
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Re: Your biggest regret with gundog training?

Post by Dummy1 »

Taking advice from people that don't have a clue what they are talking about
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