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[David]

Here’s a few things which I struggle with.

Which governing body determines exactly what any dogs DNA signature should look like and what tolerance is allowed.

Wisdom Panel advertise 15000+ purebreed samples over 220 breeds. That relates to 15,000÷220=68.1818181818 samples per breed. If a line of any breed is poorly represented is the test still accurate.

Parental DNA is the only solution. The group claims there motives aren't personal but it always seems to fall back to it.

I comment very infrequently. I learnt my lesson.

[Dawnrazor]

I was removed from "credible cockers" before I had an opportunity to post anything!!!
That has happened to many people who in anyway support Andy Platt, that's a "funny way" to moderate a group!! You had a good run, along with Naj!!!! going around in circles and being "prickly" if, in your opinion, you were not rude, some may disagree!!!

Positive Cockers! I'm afraid some Cocker Groups just want to keep out of it at all costs, its gone on too long and has benefitted nobody. Best to keep a distance.

Did try and get the two of them to see that hiding things begs questions, sows seeds of doubt in people's minds and does the 'cause' no good whatsoever. As for being willing to show us 'evidence' or, at least selected evidence, well, I accepted your offer and look where it got me - deleted! The comments re Jan and I being the same person or people with fake id's was ridiculous although it did give people the opportunity to see the type of people who are running this campaign, hopefully that may do a bit of good. Wonder if all those comments have been deleted, including the downright rude comment addressed to me which I pointed out to Admin.

Look up a definition of "rude" please.

Rude.
"rude
ruːd/Submit
adjective
adjective: rude; comparative adjective: ruder; superlative adjective: rudest
1.
offensively impolite or bad-mannered.
"she had been rude to her boss"
synonyms: ill-mannered, bad-mannered, impolite, discourteous, impertinent, insolent, impudent, cheeky, audacious, presumptuous, uncivil, disrespectful, unmannerly, ill-bred, churlish, crass, curt, brusque, blunt, ungracious, graceless, brash, unpleasant, disagreeable, offhand, short, sharp; More
offensive, insulting, derogatory, disparaging, abusive;
tactless, undiplomatic, uncomplimentary, uncharitable, unchivalrous, ungallant, ungentlemanly, unladylike"
Like it or not Judy you were, along with others, guilty of being "rude" you maybe should've looked it up first.
You certainly did not get blocked for accepting my offer but for being rude, as some saw it, and going round in circular arguments.
I'm not sure "hiding things" is accurate, there are things that have been advised to be kept from public eyes by people who have given evidence towards the case.
I agree that some comments were out of order, you and Jan being the same person, possibly an easy mistake to make if they didn't know you both from other sites but just the the two of you kept going around in circles in such a similar manner!!
I completely disagree with your point of it doing no good for cockers, it's highlighted practices that, when raised in other breeds, has been applauded, people who didn't know what had been going on and who was/is doing it now have a more informed base on which to buy a pup or what stud dog to go to, this has been widely known in trialing circles for years if spoken in hushed tones, I'm sure, when all this has run it's course the cocker spaniel will be the greatest beneficiary.
I accept people do not believe what's been unearthed, I get that, some feel "left out" and don't like not knowing what went on, some feel aggrieved that when paying top dollar from some of the biggest name, they've been sold a cross bred dog, I do feel for them.
Wheather you like how the page is run is up to the individual, people are free not to read it.
I don't think you should've been blocked as I liked the sparring!!! but I'm nothing to do with it.

[Dawnrazor]

I don’t think anybody gets a good run, DR, when they start censoring constructive criticism and suppressing honest debate.

I’m always game for a joke if it’s not malicious but then when Andy turn arounds and accuses someone of being a wind up merchant with nothing constructive to say Even after he’s tagged them in order to drag them into a conversation they had no interest in is both duplicitous and contradictory.

Proper Cocker started with good intentions but now seems to have completely foundered and all we are left with is personal attacks on clubs, individuals and other sites and a load of introspective navel picking by the few still loyal to the cause.

Naj

You undoubtedly did get a good run Jan compared with another page!!!
It did appear to many that you'll never accept what anybody said, you did seem pretty entrenched, as other are obviously, you did seem to go round in circles, as again, others did, you just lasted longer than others!!
I don't know if you got Andy on a bad night or not, there are some questions you were asked repeatedly but in a lot of people's eyes either repeatability dodged or became overly esoteric!!!
People will take from the page what they will, I don't agree with you when you say Andy is stifling honest debate, I think a lot, more than many wanted, discussed and revealed, I just think too many people have got their mind made up and won't change their minds, hence the circular arguments. I hope its all sorted out one way or a other soon, I feel it may take a while longer.
With the wisdom test, whatever you think of it, has now been used in a criminal case this will make things easier when it gets to court, the recent case against the main (alleged) protagonist being stopped due to "technical problem" is going to be re submitted, this should also move things on.
I like Andy and respect him for what he's done, others no doubt will disagree, I think all this will make people think very hard about fudging pedigrees in future so people out with the inner sanctum and aren't privileged to what's went on won't get shafted when buying a cocker in future.

[Dawnrazor]

The group claims there motives aren't personal but it always seems to fall back to it.

This is because its only a very few people who been up to it, it will always come down to the "personal" because its the person who falsifies paper work and put a dog to a bitch, it's people who have caused this not the cockers

[Dawnrazor]

I'm still wondering if the Admin ever looked at the result of the trial she attacked me and the club committee about. Mud sticks and they seem very good at throwing it.

Even those who at first supported the group are telling me it's done more harm to Cockers than anything that has come before...

To be fair David, that trial has been notorious for people saying "there's no point going there you'll never win" for years, its not your society that was in question I think(?) there's no doubt about it, there's certain faces you don't see there or who don't apply for a run because of past experiences.

[David]

I was removed from "credible cockers" before I had an opportunity to post anything!!!
That has happened to many people who in anyway support Andy Platt, that's a "funny way" to moderate a group!! You had a good run, along with Naj!!!! going around in circles and being "prickly" if, in your opinion, you were not rude, some may disagree!!!

Positive Cockers! I'm afraid some Cocker Groups just want to keep out of it at all costs, its gone on too long and has benefitted nobody. Best to keep a distance.

Did try and get the two of them to see that hiding things begs questions, sows seeds of doubt in people's minds and does the 'cause' no good whatsoever. As for being willing to show us 'evidence' or, at least selected evidence, well, I accepted your offer and look where it got me - deleted! The comments re Jan and I being the same person or people with fake id's was ridiculous although it did give people the opportunity to see the type of people who are running this campaign, hopefully that may do a bit of good. Wonder if all those comments have been deleted, including the downright rude comment addressed to me which I pointed out to Admin.

Look up a definition of "rude" please.

Rude.
"rude
ruːd/Submit
adjective
adjective: rude; comparative adjective: ruder; superlative adjective: rudest
1.
offensively impolite or bad-mannered.
"she had been rude to her boss"
synonyms: ill-mannered, bad-mannered, impolite, discourteous, impertinent, insolent, impudent, cheeky, audacious, presumptuous, uncivil, disrespectful, unmannerly, ill-bred, churlish, crass, curt, brusque, blunt, ungracious, graceless, brash, unpleasant, disagreeable, offhand, short, sharp; More
offensive, insulting, derogatory, disparaging, abusive;
tactless, undiplomatic, uncomplimentary, uncharitable, unchivalrous, ungallant, ungentlemanly, unladylike"
Like it or not Judy you were, along with others, guilty of being "rude" you maybe should've looked it up first.
You certainly did not get blocked for accepting my offer but for being rude, as some saw it, and going round in circular arguments.
I'm not sure "hiding things" is accurate, there are things that have been advised to be kept from public eyes by people who have given evidence towards the case.
I agree that some comments were out of order, you and Jan being the same person, possibly an easy mistake to make if they didn't know you both from other sites but just the the two of you kept going around in circles in such a similar manner!!
I completely disagree with your point of it doing no good for cockers, it's highlighted practices that, when raised in other breeds, has been applauded, people who didn't know what had been going on and who was/is doing it now have a more informed base on which to buy a pup or what stud dog to go to, this has been widely known in trialing circles for years if spoken in hushed tones, I'm sure, when all this has run it's course the cocker spaniel will be the greatest beneficiary.
I accept people do not believe what's been unearthed, I get that, some feel "left out" and don't like not knowing what went on, some feel aggrieved that when paying top dollar from some of the biggest name, they've been sold a cross bred dog, I do feel for them.
Wheather you like how the page is run is up to the individual, people are free not to read it.
I don't think you should've been blocked as I liked the sparring!!! but I'm nothing to do with it.

Double standards... Do you think the admin team were rude to me then?

[David]

I'm still wondering if the Admin ever looked at the result of the trial she attacked me and the club committee about. Mud sticks and they seem very good at throwing it.

Even those who at first supported the group are telling me it's done more harm to Cockers than anything that has come before...

To be fair David, that trial has been notorious for people saying "there's no point going there you'll never win" for years, its not your society that was in question I think(?) there's no doubt about it, there's certain faces you don't see there or who don't apply for a run because of past experiences.

Which trial, the 3T's? If certain people choose not to run that's their choice but the archived results speak for themselves. The accusations are not true.

[Dawnrazor]

I'm still wondering if the Admin ever looked at the result of the trial she attacked me and the club committee about. Mud sticks and they seem very good at throwing it.

Even those who at first supported the group are telling me it's done more harm to Cockers than anything that has come before...

To be fair David, that trial has been notorious for people saying "there's no point going there you'll never win" for years, its not your society that was in question I think(?) there's no doubt about it, there's certain faces you don't see there or who don't apply for a run because of past experiences.

Which trial, the 3T's? If certain people choose not to run that's their choice but the archived results speak for themselves. The accusations are not true.

Like I said David, it's not the society that was in question.

[Dawnrazor]

Positive Cockers! I'm afraid some Cocker Groups just want to keep out of it at all costs, its gone on too long and has benefitted nobody. Best to keep a distance.

Did try and get the two of them to see that hiding things begs questions, sows seeds of doubt in people's minds and does the 'cause' no good whatsoever. As for being willing to show us 'evidence' or, at least selected evidence, well, I accepted your offer and look where it got me - deleted! The comments re Jan and I being the same person or people with fake id's was ridiculous although it did give people the opportunity to see the type of people who are running this campaign, hopefully that may do a bit of good. Wonder if all those comments have been deleted, including the downright rude comment addressed to me which I pointed out to Admin.

Look up a definition of "rude" please.

Rude.
"rude
ruːd/Submit
adjective
adjective: rude; comparative adjective: ruder; superlative adjective: rudest
1.
offensively impolite or bad-mannered.
"she had been rude to her boss"
synonyms: ill-mannered, bad-mannered, impolite, discourteous, impertinent, insolent, impudent, cheeky, audacious, presumptuous, uncivil, disrespectful, unmannerly, ill-bred, churlish, crass, curt, brusque, blunt, ungracious, graceless, brash, unpleasant, disagreeable, offhand, short, sharp; More
offensive, insulting, derogatory, disparaging, abusive;
tactless, undiplomatic, uncomplimentary, uncharitable, unchivalrous, ungallant, ungentlemanly, unladylike"
Like it or not Judy you were, along with others, guilty of being "rude" you maybe should've looked it up first.
You certainly did not get blocked for accepting my offer but for being rude, as some saw it, and going round in circular arguments.
I'm not sure "hiding things" is accurate, there are things that have been advised to be kept from public eyes by people who have given evidence towards the case.
I agree that some comments were out of order, you and Jan being the same person, possibly an easy mistake to make if they didn't know you both from other sites but just the the two of you kept going around in circles in such a similar manner!!
I completely disagree with your point of it doing no good for cockers, it's highlighted practices that, when raised in other breeds, has been applauded, people who didn't know what had been going on and who was/is doing it now have a more informed base on which to buy a pup or what stud dog to go to, this has been widely known in trialing circles for years if spoken in hushed tones, I'm sure, when all this has run it's course the cocker spaniel will be the greatest beneficiary.
I accept people do not believe what's been unearthed, I get that, some feel "left out" and don't like not knowing what went on, some feel aggrieved that when paying top dollar from some of the biggest name, they've been sold a cross bred dog, I do feel for them.
Wheather you like how the page is run is up to the individual, people are free not to read it.
I don't think you should've been blocked as I liked the sparring!!! but I'm nothing to do with it.

Double standards... Do you think the admin team were rude to me then?

I think they were, yes, but double standards are rife in the trialing world and like in general I'm afraid!

[David]

Rude.
"rude
ruːd/Submit
adjective
adjective: rude; comparative adjective: ruder; superlative adjective: rudest
1.
offensively impolite or bad-mannered.
"she had been rude to her boss"
synonyms: ill-mannered, bad-mannered, impolite, discourteous, impertinent, insolent, impudent, cheeky, audacious, presumptuous, uncivil, disrespectful, unmannerly, ill-bred, churlish, crass, curt, brusque, blunt, ungracious, graceless, brash, unpleasant, disagreeable, offhand, short, sharp; More
offensive, insulting, derogatory, disparaging, abusive;
tactless, undiplomatic, uncomplimentary, uncharitable, unchivalrous, ungallant, ungentlemanly, unladylike"
Like it or not Judy you were, along with others, guilty of being "rude" you maybe should've looked it up first.
You certainly did not get blocked for accepting my offer but for being rude, as some saw it, and going round in circular arguments.
I'm not sure "hiding things" is accurate, there are things that have been advised to be kept from public eyes by people who have given evidence towards the case.
I agree that some comments were out of order, you and Jan being the same person, possibly an easy mistake to make if they didn't know you both from other sites but just the the two of you kept going around in circles in such a similar manner!!
I completely disagree with your point of it doing no good for cockers, it's highlighted practices that, when raised in other breeds, has been applauded, people who didn't know what had been going on and who was/is doing it now have a more informed base on which to buy a pup or what stud dog to go to, this has been widely known in trialing circles for years if spoken in hushed tones, I'm sure, when all this has run it's course the cocker spaniel will be the greatest beneficiary.
I accept people do not believe what's been unearthed, I get that, some feel "left out" and don't like not knowing what went on, some feel aggrieved that when paying top dollar from some of the biggest name, they've been sold a cross bred dog, I do feel for them.
Wheather you like how the page is run is up to the individual, people are free not to read it.
I don't think you should've been blocked as I liked the sparring!!! but I'm nothing to do with it.

Double standards... Do you think the admin team were rude to me then?

I think they were, yes, but double standards are rife in the trialing world and like in general I'm afraid!

So that makes it OK then, you can't win with your responses, I find it odd how you always seem to justify them.