trekmoor wrote:Personally, if I had a litter of pups, I don't think I'd be too happy to have someone do a barrage of tests on them........... somehow I just don't like the idea of that happening.
Wullie
I`ts very difficult to assess pups at that age and I aways go with the one Iike the look of.I `m with Wullie and would be most unhappy for someone to take a pup out of my sight and carry out ` tests ` no matter what their credentials.
Judy wrote:And some exceptional dogs never find the right trainer.... It takes two I reckon ~ a good dog and a good trainer to make an exceptional dog.
Even the best of trainers make an occasional wrong choice and pick a pup that just does not suit them as it gets a bit older. I'm not saying I'm the "best of trainers" but I once picked a pup from a litter of G.S.P.'s I'd bred myself that by 5-6 months old did not suit me. I gave her the wrong "nurture." I'd kept two pups, one bitch, one dog. They were both given the same nurture which means that I did a bit of retrieve work with them and a lot of hunting over ground with good numbers of partridge and pheasants. Both pups developed very well as hunters and were finding, pointing and holding point on game by 5 months of age.
I failed to notice quickly enough that the bitch had become so keen on hunting that she no longer was keen on retrieving. The dog pup remained keen on both. I'd always intended to keep the bitch and sell the dog as "part trained" but I then did the opposite and sold the bitch pup to a gamekeeper who wasn't interested in her retrieving , only in how well she hunted. Two pups from the same litter but I failed to keep on re-assessing the pups as they were given their "nurture."
The occasional naturally brilliant pup does come along and if it is in the hands of a good trainer it will go far. With a poor or not too interested trainer that same pup may use it's natural abilities to suit itself and become a nightmare on a shoot.
I am a believer in ,"Breed for the best, train for the rest."
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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I always remember what a very famous dog handler once said (Judy will know who I mean) He said given the choice he thought a mediocre dog and a great handler would go better than a great dog and a mediocre handler!
I agree.
The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail more than his tongue!
Allyson Tohme MGoDT (MT)
I think that is perfectly true.
I quite often see dogs that I wish were mine but all too often they are in the hands of the "ordinary shooting man" and haven't developed to anywhere near their full potential. It often seems to me that the keener someone is on their shooting the less good their dog is. Men not multi-tasking too well
Maybe more women should try shooting accurately and safely and training/working a dog at the same time ?
One of the most difficult to win competitions I ever took part in was called the "Dog and Gun" competition. Contestants had to shoot clays off to one side and handle their dogs out to blind retrieves on the other side. My shooting wasn't brilliant but at least my dog would then handle out to the blind with distraction.Most of the dogs failed all the retrieves so even although my shooting was poor I still won overall on points. About 25 men (no women) took part in that test. Many of those men would have easily beaten me if their dogs had handled as well as their owners could shoot.
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
I always remember what a very famous dog handler once said (Judy will know who I mean) ;) He said given the choice he thought a mediocre dog and a great handler would go better than a great dog and a mediocre handler!
I agree.
Absolutely, Allyson!!
We have a partnership currently working in WT that perfectly illustrates that point. I don't think any other current handler would have got this particular cross-bred (that's another topic altogether ) dog into the top stake, never mind qualified TDEx.
trekmoor wrote:I think that is perfectly true.
I quite often see dogs that I wish were mine but all too often they are in the hands of the "ordinary shooting man" and haven't developed to anywhere near their full potential. It often seems to me that the keener someone is on their shooting the less good their dog is. Men not multi-tasking too well
Maybe more women should try shooting accurately and safely and training/working a dog at the same time ?
One of the most difficult to win competitions I ever took part in was called the "Dog and Gun" competition. Contestants had to shoot clays off to one side and handle their dogs out to blind retrieves on the other side. My shooting wasn't brilliant but at least my dog would then handle out to the blind with distraction.Most of the dogs failed all the retrieves so even although my shooting was poor I still won overall on points. About 25 men (no women) took part in that test. Many of those men would have easily beaten me if their dogs had handled as well as their owners could shoot.
Wullie
Could it be that often those that are keen on shooting are asking their dogs to do a bit of everything?
If you don't shoot and only go picking up or beating it is going to be a driven day so does the dog get used to what it is doing?
However if you are into really into shooting you'd be looking for a dog that will sit quietly by the peg for the driven days, in the hide for pigeons, hunting up some hedges or ditches on a rough shoot and be sent out in the freezing foreshore for a goose.
ideally you would have a number of dogs but time/space etc get in the way.
It takes two I reckon ~ a good dog and a good trainer to make an exceptional dog.
He said given the choice he thought a mediocre dog and a great handler would go better than a great dog and a mediocre handler!
Men not multi-tasking too well 
