Gundog Training Forum

Agree completely that there really are pros that do not have a clue and anyone can call themselves a pro so caution should be taken when finding a mentor.
This is a clip of my cocker pup at barely 12 months old. She was completely collar conditioned at this point and we had just started out in the field on quartering. She was far from perfect but she is happy and hunting while listening to my whistle. I am not saying that all dogs that are collared have the same attitude as this but IF a collar is used it should be a goal as a trainer that your dog is happy and confident.

https://youtu.be/9v9rNAHBtPs

She looks good Jackie

Naj wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:32 pm
Just to address Judy’s comments that dogs trained with e collars only behave when they’re wearing an e collar, no they don’t. It’s common practice to leave collars on trained dogs for when the dog goes wrong. And we’ve all seen dogs wearing collars that still misbehave.

Naj

If you really want to argue with a woman at least read her post properly...

Judy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:27 pm

Naj wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:32 pm
Just to address Judy’s comments that dogs trained with e collars only behave when they’re wearing an e collar, no they don’t. It’s common practice to leave collars on trained dogs for when the dog goes wrong. And we’ve all seen dogs wearing collars that still misbehave.

Naj

If you really want to argue with a woman at least read her post properly...

I will when you start reading mine properly.

I think the e-collar discussion on this forum will forever go in circles since it is not commonplace for the UK so opinions are based on personal feelings instead of personal experience. These threads always tend to end the same way. It would be like me weighing in on hunting elephants - I know nothing about it.

Cass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:57 pm I think the e-collar discussion on this forum will forever go in circles since it is not commonplace for the UK so opinions are based on personal feelings instead of personal experience. These threads always tend to end the same way. It would be like me weighing in on hunting elephants - I know nothing about it.

So true and yet I always get sucked into it

I find it interesting to learn about different methods

chrokeva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Cass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:57 pm I think the e-collar discussion on this forum will forever go in circles since it is not commonplace for the UK so opinions are based on personal feelings instead of personal experience. These threads always tend to end the same way. It would be like me weighing in on hunting elephants - I know nothing about it.

So true and yet I always get sucked into it

Hang in there, Jackie - this thread's been ongoing since Nick (Cass) was a wee elephant boy with Hannibal in the Alps. Which is to say there's been some pretty good and germane input from both sides of the pond, sometimes from someone who's inhabited both sides of same. Though it's not true that e-collar users from Blighty had an option of using trans-Atlantic cabling for recharging their collars with 220V!

MG

crackerd wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:50 pm

chrokeva wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 9:09 pm

Cass wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 8:57 pm I think the e-collar discussion on this forum will forever go in circles since it is not commonplace for the UK so opinions are based on personal feelings instead of personal experience. These threads always tend to end the same way. It would be like me weighing in on hunting elephants - I know nothing about it.

So true and yet I always get sucked into it

Hang in there, Jackie - this thread's been ongoing since Nick (Cass) was a wee elephant boy with Hannibal in the Alps. Which is to say there's been some pretty good and germane input from both sides of the pond, sometimes from someone who's inhabited both sides of same. Though it's not true that e-collar users from Blighty had an option of using trans-Atlantic cabling for recharging their collars with 220V!

MG

Springfield Pointers wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:21 pm

newf wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:33 pm

ips wrote: ↑Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:05 pm

This is how i am beginning to see it. It seems to me to be the same as running em down and doing whatever, (in my case a verbal bollocking or a picking up which obviously distresses her as she will immediately submit) but without the running Also the "reminder" as i would call it (if indeed i ever used it which is unlikely) would be given at the precise moment of the misdemeanor which according to everyone is an absolute must, this begs the question as to why run em down at all if the moment has gone i digress

IPS, that’s where those against punishing a dog or even others who are stymied in its use by the lie of the first group. Punishment for an action that is unwanted does not have to happen immediately. In matter of fact, a time lapse before its application is more desirable in being effective in tying the consequence to the action. What is crucial is marking the instant of when the dog goes wrong. Saying ‘no’, using a gruff voice and even a tone on an e-collar are some but not limited to, one’s choices.

The reason the collar is so effective is that the control is precise. It helps little - or should I say, it's less effective - running a dog down and dealing with it 10 minutes after the incident.
People keep referring to the operation of a collar as "punishment". This also adds to the misunderstanding of the use of these things. And also, the reason they are seen in such a negative light. Also being used by numbnuts such as the guy that ips mentioned, lends much to the reason they should not be easily accessible.

Well, Sp, unless a e-collar is just being utilized for its tone or vibration and not a 'nick' then I agree with you. However, if the 'nick' is on (at whatever level) and it inhibits or stops a behavior then it is technically punishment. You can call it a correction if you like but it is still punishment. Sometime in the past, I ran and jumped into my bed as a lark to meet my wife. En route, I stubbed my toe and from then on I used a different approach. You could say, I corrected myself but in my mind it was punishment.

By the way, I use the so called tennis shoe method and have even dabbled with the e-collar. The principles of utilizing either are the same, the difference is time of delivery. It is because of this, that I believe the e-collar gets a bad rap. An operator, should have a working knowledge of behavior; certainly in the area of positive reinforcement but more especially on how to use punishment humanely and effectively.