Quartering

[Snicklefritz]

I agree Judy, in basic training for upland, learn the pattern. I worked on straight lines and casting first, and made it a point not to do any upland until my dog had that down. Now, I'm switching to upland and working on patterns. I believe it can be done in either order. It seems wise though, not to mix the two. Teaching the basics in handling, and basics in upland could be very confusing for the dog.

[trekmoor]

Snick, I go on a U.S. forum or two and know what you mean by "upland" it might be good idea though to add the word and its explanation to this forums dictionary thingy ??? There may be a couple of folk on here that don't know that term.

Wullie

[trekmoor]

Snick , over here we don't let our dogs run for objectives. It took me a while on an American bird dog forum to understand what was meant by running for objectives. Our trial dogs would probably be down marked for missing ground. All of the ground on a Briish pointing dogs "beat" is supposed to have been covered by the dogs nose whether that ground looks promising or not. I think much the same would apply in a spaniel trial here. The dogs have to hunt all of the ground within their beat.

I think we find it hard to get our heads around just how much ground your dogs might have to cover to find birds. Under those conditions it makes sense to have dogs run for objectives .So much of that ground would be barren and wasteful of the dogs energy. Over here many estates have birds in numbers like plums in a pudding ! Our grouse moors are nearer to your kind of wide open spaces. On some grouse moors it is easily possible to run a good team of pointing dogs all morning without seeing a single grouse !

I have "guided" several U.S. clients over the years on grouse moors as I worked my pointing dogs for them. Without exception they loved it. Very often it was possible to see almost every step of the dogs work. My American clients were dyed in the wool bird dog people, they came to see the dog work on the Scottish moors more than to actually shoot the grouse . They sometimes became so engrossed they forgot to shoot when my dogs put the birds up ! They were real sportsmen.

Wullie

[gdunc]

They sometimes became so engrossed they forgot to shoot when my dogs put the birds up ! They were real sportsmen.

Either that or they were acutely aware of the cost per brace and were trying to keep shooting into the afternoon without using all their currency

[trekmoor]

Possible Duncan but some of these guys had serious dosh by my standards. Two of them went out with me one Saturday after my work was finished. They shot 2 1/2 brace if I remember correctly. They then tipped me £50 - each ! . . . . . At that time that was about the same as my weekly wage ! I damn nearly fainted dead away and it took copious doses of purely medicinal whisky to revive me !
I didn't get home until the Sunday - I slept in my car coz I couldn't see straight to drive it ! ........Oh happy days !

Wullie

[Snicklefritz]

I think your spot on wullie. Grounds like your describing only occur on game preserves in the US. So, you sorted it out really nicely. Are you still in a position to guide me on a grouse hunt? I'm not made of money, but the kids are grown, and the wife and I are starting to spread our wings. I love to visit Britain, especially if it included a hunt on the moors.

I'll post something up in the glossary about a UKC Hunt Test.

[trekmoor]

Snick I wish I could guide you but my health makes that impossible now. I went to a pointer and setter trial with Duncan [Gdunc] a few weeks ago and very nearly popped my clogs up there ! Not a bad way to go , I enjoyed the trial. But the ground covered during a pointing dog trial is nowhere near as much as that covered on a day of shooting over dogs . "Shooting over dogs" is the correct term for that kind of work here - the other kinds of hunting dog work , such as spaniels do is called " walked up." Sometimes no dogs are hunted during that kind of shooting. I did a lot of it with my labs but it pales to nothingness compared to shooting over dogs. When those dogs point your hair stands on end and your toes curl - there is simply nothing else like it.

I can't take you out and I certainly can't get you shooting grouse nowadays but if you want to I can probably put you in touch with people who can take you out.

The cheapest way to do things would be to just come over and spectate at a couple of grouse trials in late July and August. You would not get to shoot but you can see the dogwork though not up real close.

I may also be able to get you out on a grouse count where nothing is shot but you can easily see how it would be . You would be able to get close during this. That too would cost nothing at all. The beginning of August is the usual time for those but some big estates start a month earlier to count their birds - it takes a full month of dogwork to cover all of the ground !

Wullie

[Snicklefritz]

Thanks wullie. I'm sorry to here that health is becoming an issue for you. I'm right on the edge of that same envelope. If I can work something out I will surely let you connect me, and then we you can show a local 'establishment' and we can right all the dog worlds problems. Sounds fabulous to me.

Snick

[Mig]

Well it's working!

I've listened to what you guys have to say and today it has started coming together. Before taking Inde out tonight we had a quick flutter with the plant pots in the back garden and all went well. I then took Inde to a local field where we have been a number of times to train. It's not people and dog free but if I choose my moments it's not bad at all. Anyway, we did a bit of retrieving, which went well. Not to hand but enthusiastic enough so we were both happy.

Then I took her to a bit of rougher ground (short marsh grass but not wet). I asked her to quarter into the wind and she did it. She came past me about 8 times before we reached our target (tennis ball), she got lots of praise and a bit of cheese.

Anyway, I was dead chuffed, couldn't believe we had actually achieved a number of turns and she actually looked like a spaniel quartering. I was so pleased but nervous of trying it again just in case it had been a fluke. I waited a little while and then we had another go, initially she just ran to a point she wanted to get too. I called her back in and then sent her out again to the right and she quartered like a good un just like the first time. So it was no fluke. What's more I felt comfortable with the movements which was good and I kept them decisive but calm and low and she kept within a reasonable distance. She was actually looking to me as well as working the ground - what a great feeling.

I walked off that field tonight floating on air, with a stupid grin on my face which made me look like I'd lost my marbles, but to be honest I felt like I'd just won the lottery! (facial muscles actually started to ache after a while from smiling too much ) What a fab dog, it's only taken us about a week - I know we are a million miles off having it cracked but we have made a good start and right now I couldn't be happier. I now intend to concentrate at the level we are at until I move her into more inspiring country.

Mig

[ballymary]

Well done Mig. What a lovely reward for all your hard effort. When I'm back from my camping weekend I'm going to study this topic in detail.