Energy bars

[romanriver]

Naj, I don't think its a case of lacking stamina, more that the handler wants that extra bit of performance, especially on a cold wet day. I know my dogs can "cope" with a full days work, but I want to win not just cope

[Alice]

An interesting subject!

First I would ask why you need the energy bar. If it's because your dog is working really hard on a cold day and needs a lunchtime pep up then pemikkan is ideal. Being fat and protein based it provides easily useable energy for the dog. Being concentrated it doesn't risk upsetting the gut if the dog runs about within a short while of consuming it. Fatty meat, eggs, sausages can all work well too but may not be as convenient to carry around. Carb based snacks are not ideal for dogs as carbs are a secondary fuel for dogs, Carb snacks tend to be bulkier too. The exception would be using sugary food for a dog having a low blood sugar moment....but....

If you're giving snacks because the dog won't work through a normal shoot day without them, you need to go back to basics.

1- Is the dog healthy (no joint or muscle pain, bad teeth, endocrine problem)? Because no amount of food or supplement will make up for pain/illness. Exercise induced collapse is now being seen in several gundog breeds, and other genetic problems can lead to exercise intolerance too so keep these in mind.
2- Is the dog fit? Many dogs are expected to work a full day at the weekend but only do short lead walks during the week. Food can't replace fitness. Triallers seems to worry that having the dog out too long can ruin the drive, but brisk lead walks, bicycle exercise, or treadmill work can build fitness while keeping a dog wanting to hunt.
3- Is the food right for the dog? Sprint dogs (trialling dogs, picking up dogs, peg dogs) are usually ok witht eh levels of fat and protein in working dog foods, but endurance dogs (beating dogs) may need more fat especially. There is a myth that high protein foods cause kidney problems, and bonkers dogs but dogs use protein and fat much better than carbs. They need a good level of high quality protein (animal muscle protein) to supply the essential amino acids (the ones the body can't make) which then make neurotransmitters (The brain chemicals which make the dog happy, content, aid learning and memory etc.).
4- Is the feeding regime right for the dog? I prefer to feed twice a day, but if once a day works for you then great. I'd say if your dog is running our of puff by lunchtime once a day probably isn't working though. My own dog struggles to digest the amount he needs to eat if it is given in one go. Wolves may gorge then fast....but they don't do anything for days after gorging. I think routine is important; if a dog is usually fed twice daily but is starved before a trial that is more likely to lead to weakness/tiredness than if the dog is conditioned to once daily feeding. Starving before a trial is highly unlikely to increase hunting drive as the dog is not actually hunting for food, it's hunting for 'kicks' (surges of dopamine). Feeding before hard work can cause digestive upsets as the blood is moved into the muscles and away from digestion, in addition a full gut jiggling around can cause 'caecal slap' which is painful and can cause diarrhoea. Food leaves a dogs stomach pretty quickly and a light meal 2 hours before work is well tolerated. Of course this may just be where your Pemikkan comes in handy...if you have a dog that doesn't tolerate eating before working, but who struggles to keep his energy up if he doesn't eat, the Pemikkan is a low volume, quickly processed, high energy shot.
5- No two dogs are the same! So the regime and food that work for one may not work for the others.

I do use pemikkan now. I find it particularly helpful mid-late season for my boy as he doesn't have any fat reserves by then, and spends much of his day in icy water picking duck.

the definitive answer!

[Springfield Pointers]

Naj, I don't think its a case of lacking stamina, more that the handler wants that extra bit of performance, especially on a cold wet day. I know my dogs can "cope" with a full days work, but I want to win not just cope

I don't think energy bars will supply what is needed if the dog is flagging on short runs. I think this is what Naj was saying. Energy bars, or any other snacks aren't going to make a dog focus and decide to change gears if it can't manage ten or fifteen minutes twice a day.

[Naj]

Naj, I don't think its a case of lacking stamina, more that the handler wants that extra bit of performance, especially on a cold wet day. I know my dogs can "cope" with a full days work, but I want to win not just cope

You'll maybe need to be wearing yer lucky sox as well, then.

[romanriver]

Naj, I don't think its a case of lacking stamina, more that the handler wants that extra bit of performance, especially on a cold wet day. I know my dogs can "cope" with a full days work, but I want to win not just cope

I don't think energy bars will supply what is needed if the dog is flagging on short runs. I think this is what Naj was saying. Energy bars, or any other snacks aren't going to make a dog focus and decide to change gears if it can't manage ten or fifteen minutes twice a day.

ns of

A trial requires more than 2 10 minute runs, you are standing still in all weathers for several hours and the dogs do feel it. I have had runs of 40-60 minutes and then expect the dog to perform at high standard again, anything from 2 mins to 3 hrs later. Keeping the dog warm with a coat and topping up his energy levels doesn't mean he isn't fit enough, but I agree that a dog that flags isn't going to improve by using energy bars.
Fitness plays a major part in trials as well as shooting, an unfit dog will start to pant, lift its head and start looking for the easy path, all causing him to miss game.

[Springfield Pointers]

All dogs pant. I'm sure you mean 40-60 mins over the trial? Not 40-60 mins a round?

[romanriver]

SP a run of 45 mins is not uncommon in a Spaniel trial, the norm is around 10-15 mins. You then have a 2nd run which could be immediately or 2 hrs later.

[Naj]

It's presumably fairly unusual, though, even so. And what chance would a dog have of getting placed if it had a run of 45 - 60 minutes & would presumably be penalised for losing pace &/or zip. Perhaps it would be fairer all round to run dogs for a specified time, as I believe they do in Europe, strictly against the clock, so each dog has the same time in which to show off their hunting quality and game contact is up to the luck of the draw & the quality of the guns, as it is already. Perhaps that's for another thread.

Naj

[Springfield Pointers]

My feeling on the matter is this. A dog that is hunted relatively regularly will be well fit enough to run a trial. Trials are not demanding on fitness. In short: If your dog is at a competitive level, it follows that to reach that level the dog (and handler) should have put in sufficient work that would see it fit enough to handle the rigours of a trial. Personally, I find the biggest drawback in trials is keeping the dogs from going nuts being on a lead 95% of the day. And kennel blind judges - but that's another story.

Dogs don't necessarily need to be kept in peak physical condition in the off season, once they start working again, they quickly get back to hunting trim. Worrying about giving them "energy boosts" is missing the point of good stable nutrition and work throughout the season. Feed the dog in front of you. If it's losing condition - increase its intake of fat/protein and accordingly if it's getting overweight. No need to overcomplicate this.

[Springfield Pointers]

SP a run of 45 mins is not uncommon in a Spaniel trial, the norm is around 10-15 mins. You then have a 2nd run which could be immediately or 2 hrs later.

45 minute rounds in spaniel trials, I would imagine would be unusual.