Gundog Training Forum

allan450 wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2017 9:07 am The original poster is from ireland.I was simply stating the referee whistle is the best choice him.Dogs really have to work here to find game.On a windy day here 90 percent of the time it is when a dog is pulling out 300/400 yards he cant hear it.Its different in Scotland where is dog is getting finds every 3 or 4 casts then you wouldnt rely on the stop as much.Also if the dog is taking to much ground in front of you stop him pull him back and recast him to your left or right.Il keep doing it this way. my mate has made countless ftch with this method.

Ok, now we're talking about different things. Surely if we're discussing the issue of dropping a dog with a whistle after game is flushed, then you'll be using it more with more game contact?

allan450 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 30, 2017 4:06 pm So your telling me once a dog is trained to drop to flush or bumps it will always drop regardless.You must have some dogs.id rather have a loud stop whistle a dog can hear in case temptation gets to much rather then watch him chase a covey of grouse.

Generally I like my dogs to do what I train for, so yes, I would hope they stop when they are required to do so, and display caution when caution is needed.

Of course there is place for a stop whistle, but for me it's not on every occasion. The whistle you refer to is more than adequate for pointing dogs on the occasion you need to use it.

Hmm, I may not work my `pointers' 300/400 yds on a cast as a 400yd maximum beat is quite sufficient for my purposes. But my dogs have no problem hearing a tuned silent as a turn whistle at that range even with me being behind in a `head wind'. The 211 1/2 I use as a stop is quite loud enough and is obeyed if the dog is willing to listen. I'm firmly in the belief that a louder whistle makes no difference, except to the person blowing it The strength of wind and ambient noise will play a certain amount on `when' a dog receives it, but not nearly as much as some people think How well a dog has been trained to the whistle, especially the stop, and one that is tuned into `listening for it' while it goes about its work, is much more of a factor than its pitch IME.

munstyman wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2017 10:10 am I'm firmly in the belief that a louder whistle makes no difference, except to the person blowing it The strength of wind and ambient noise will play a certain amount on `when' a dog receives it, but not nearly as much as some people think How well a dog has been trained to the whistle, especially the stop, and one that is tuned into `listening for it' while it goes about its work, is much more of a factor than its pitch IME.

Indeed.

[quote=allan450 post_id=275341 time=1493629653 user_id=54
The original poster is from ireland.I was simply stating the referee whistle is the best choice him.Dogs really have to work here to find game.On a windy day here 90 percent of the time it is when a dog is pulling out 300/400 yards he cant hear it.Its different in Scotland where is dog is getting finds every 3 or 4 casts then you wouldnt rely on the stop as much.Also if the dog is taking to much ground in front of you stop him pull him back and recast him to your left or right.Il keep doing it this way. my mate has made countless ftch with this method.
[/quote]

I live in Scotland and what you say about dogs getting finds every 3 or 4 casts is sometimes true but only on the best of driven moors during pre 12th of August grouse counts. I was the 'dog man' on a large sporting estate for many years and guided small shooting parties of from one to four guns over the moors to shoot grouse over my dogs.

We would begin the hunt at about 10 a.m. and end at about 4 p.m. . A good bag for an entire day was 3 brace of grouse but it was quite often less than that. The dogs really did have to work hard and range well out for every bird we got.

I worked my dogs, brittanies and g.s.p.'s ,on other estates too for about the same number of grouse in the bag. Please do not continue to think pointing dogs have it easy in Scotland, finding conveys every few casts only happens on estates with high grouse densities and finding them is normally only done by pointers while doing pre season grouse counts when they are never shot.















Probably the most interesting pointing dog work to be had in Scotland...... or even in the whole of Britain is up in the far n.e. of Scotland in what is called 'The Flow Country.' ....... mile after mile after mile of almost flat ancient wilderness bogs. Grouse are extremely scarce there e.g...but pointing dog people from all over the country are queuing up for the chance to work their dogs over it.
I water at the mouth with the very thought of hunting there every time I am up that way......

Willie

P.s. sorry for the various mistakes in this post, I can't get the hang of this tablet thing .

trekmoor wrote: ↑Mon May 01, 2017 12:27 pm [quote=allan450 post_id=275341 time=1493629653 user_id=54
The original poster is from ireland.I was simply stating the referee whistle is the best choice him.Dogs really have to work here to find game.On a windy day here 90 percent of the time it is when a dog is pulling out 300/400 yards he cant hear it.Its different in Scotland where is dog is getting finds every 3 or 4 casts then you wouldnt rely on the stop as much.Also if the dog is taking to much ground in front of you stop him pull him back and recast him to your left or right.Il keep doing it this way. my mate has made countless ftch with this method.

I live in Scotland and what you say about dogs getting finds every 3 or 4 casts is sometimes true but only on the best of driven moors during pre 12th of August grouse counts. I was the 'dog man' on a large sporting estate for many years and guided small shooting parties of from one to four guns over the moors to shoot grouse over my dogs.

We would begin the hunt at about 10 a.m. and end at about 4 p.m. . A good bag for an entire day was 3 brace of grouse but it was quite often less than that. The dogs really did have to work hard and range well out for every bird we got.

I worked my dogs, brittanies and g.s.p.'s ,on other estates too for about the same number of grouse in the bag. Please do not continue to think pointing dogs have it easy in Scotland, finding conveys every few casts only happens on estates with high grouse densities and finding them is normally only done by pointers while doing pre season grouse counts when they are never shot.
Sorry trekmoor i didnt mean that all of Scotland would have a large supply of game i was referring to the managed grouse moors.Every moor over here would be as you describe the flow country unmanaged vast country.I know some English/Scottish trailers send their dogs of here it gets them running wider.Irish lads go to scotland to train for steadiness ect.














Probably the most interesting pointing dog work to be had in Scotland...... or even in the whole of Britain is up in the far n.e. of Scotland in what is called 'The Flow Country.' ....... mile after mile after mile of almost flat ancient wilderness bogs. Grouse are extremely scarce there e.g...but pointing dog people from all over the country are queuing up for the chance to work their dogs over it.
I water at the mouth with the very thought of hunting there every time I am up that way......

Willie

P.s. sorry for the various mistakes in this post, I can't get the hang of this tablet thing .
[/quote]

I had replied it went missing.sorry willie i was on about managed moors in scotland.The flow country as you describe is every moor over here.miles on miles of vast land that time has forgot.i know of scottish trailers to come over here and bring there dogs as they run wider.visa versa irish lads go to scotland to train for steadiness ect.

Cheers for the replys. I found some guidelines for drop training on this page if anyone else is interested https://glencuanpointers.wordpress.com/ ... /the-drop/

what stop whistle you decided on yet

Wish I could count on finds every 3 or 4 casts! There again, perhaps not, I'd have to get another spaniel.

I'd still expect a dog to make good on following up on any viable game contact but as Allan says that comes with experience and I leave a young inexperienced dog to sort that out for herself without any interference from me. If a dog is clumsy around birds it is quickly punished by the bird breaking and I believe they learn much better from this than from me stopping them when there might well be nothing left to stop for. Works for me. As regards hares, in particular, that the dog bumps or sees flush ahead or run across her path as she's hunting I don't see any point in stopping her on them and my current dog will hardly break her stride on them.

Naj

Hares are weird creatures, I'm not surprised they were once associated with witches. I was competing in a field trial with my Brittany 30 years ago and we'd been told that although hares were not to be shot the dogs would still be marked for pointing them and for steadiness to them.
My bitch found and pointed and, on command, flushed a hare. she did an 'automatic' sit to flush but the hare only ran about 20 feet and then it sat too and looked back at my bitch in what looked like an invitation to give the weird creature a chase !

The judges that day were even more weird than the hare. They marked me down saying that the flush had not been 'strong' enough to make the hare really run ! Hpr trials had some bloody awful judges back then.

Wullie