Retrieve as a reward.

[Naj]

You’re using treats to reward and sustain the correct behaviour so ‘getting the hang of it’ isn’t really a viable training option. And every time you withold rewards you risk weakening the behaviour. Handlers who recommend fading rewards asap are usually relying on corrections rather than rewards. As you move on to the shooting field and the real thing you’ll find that hunting/retrieving rewards will naturally replace edible ones but I always use edible rewards for maintenance work on dummies.

Naj

[trekmoor]

Handlers who recommend fading rewards asap are usually relying on corrections rather than rewards.

Naj

In general I agree with the above because it is what I often do. I don't like giving treats in training so once I have established what the dog should do perhaps with the use of treats I move on to what the dog must do with no treats.

Wullie

[burntheships]

You’re using treats to reward and sustain the correct behaviour so ‘getting the hang of it’ isn’t really a viable training option. And every time you withold rewards you risk weakening the behaviour. Handlers who recommend fading rewards asap are usually relying on corrections rather than rewards. As you move on to the shooting field and the real thing you’ll find that hunting/retrieving rewards will naturally replace edible ones but I always use edible rewards for maintenance work on dummies.

Naj

I read about fading rewards on Pippa Mattinsons website, there’s a lot of conflicting information when reading about methods and treats but I guess it’s different for every dog. Ill keep it simple and just keep rewarding her for successful retrieves.

[Naj]

You’re using treats to reward and sustain the correct behaviour so ‘getting the hang of it’ isn’t really a viable training option. And every time you withold rewards you risk weakening the behaviour. Handlers who recommend fading rewards asap are usually relying on corrections rather than rewards. As you move on to the shooting field and the real thing you’ll find that hunting/retrieving rewards will naturally replace edible ones but I always use edible rewards for maintenance work on dummies.

Naj

I read about fading rewards on Pippa Mattinsons website, there’s a lot of conflicting information when reading about methods and treats but I guess it’s different for every dog. Ill keep it simple and just keep rewarding her for successful retrieves.

That is a bit dated (2015) but if you read what Pippa writes at the end and throughout the article she isn’t recommending fading rewards completely, far from it, but using a variable schedule in places for specific objectives and/or replacing edible rewards for some other reward. The problem with the Gambling Effect that she talks about, which was popular a few decades ago but is now largely considered to be counter productive, is that once you withold a reward you’re starting an extinction process. Pippa is hoping for a burst of activity that this gives rise to but that can easily lead to frustration and a downward spiral in practice. Technically speaking we use them when shaping complicated behaviours but there is little complicated in getting a dog to sit, retrieve or recall. And it was pointed out by early animal trainers that constant reinforcement produced far more reliable behaviours than the lottery of going down the road of variable reinforcement. Is the short answer.

Naj

[burntheships]

I’ve done another couple of training sessions rolling the tennis ball then the rabbit dummy in the house. We have just been for a walk and I took the tennis ball to try once to see if she would deliver it nicely, bit of a gamble maybe .

She brought it straight back and into my hand first time and was eager to keep going so I gave her about 5-6 throughout the walk and all of them were good deliveries, very pleased. She was also a lot more interested in me now that we were playing this game, she never outright ignores me but it made a difference.

I will hold off with the rabbit dummy for a week or so before trying that as I don’t want to put her in a position to fail with it until I’m happy she will bring it back, I’ll definitely start the rabbit dummy in the garden first.

[burntheships]

Just an update and looking for a bit more guidance.

Heidi now delivers any dummy to hand so happy with that. She is also steady to them all (when it’s just me and her) needs work when another dog is there retrieving as well as she gets super keen and wants to run in, getting there though. I took Ips advice and allow her to run in on tennis balls and she knows the difference so no problem here either.

This is what she can currently do in regards to retrieving. She can mark it and hunt for them in long grass and undergrowth, I can place the dummy down making sure she’s seen it and walk her a ways away (haven’t tried further than a couple hundred meters) and out of sight and release her, she loves doing this one, stays at my heel the entire time waiting for me to release her. I also drop a dummy behind me when walking so she doesent see then after 50 meters or so release her in that direction to find it.

I can sit her and throw a dummy either side of her and send her separately for each one (this one is a work in progress).

Im just looking for a bit of guidance of where to go next with her retrieving, I’ve seen videos where they stop their dog with a pip then guide them the right way with hand signals. Not sure how to go about teaching this though and if she’s ready for it, any ideas?

[Springcopse spaniels]

Just an update and looking for a bit more guidance.

Im just looking for a bit of guidance of where to go next with her retrieving, I’ve seen videos where they stop their dog with a pip then guide them the right way with hand signals. Not sure how to go about teaching this though and if she’s ready for it, any ideas?

Top of the list would be a 100% stop/sit whistle in all scenarios. Start close so the dog sits ssy 5ft in front, blow sit whistle throw dummy send dog. So it builds a positive reinforcement of the sit. If the dog runs in just ignore it takr retreive and start over again.

[burntheships]

Just an update and looking for a bit more guidance.

Im just looking for a bit of guidance of where to go next with her retrieving, I’ve seen videos where they stop their dog with a pip then guide them the right way with hand signals. Not sure how to go about teaching this though and if she’s ready for it, any ideas?

Top of the list would be a 100% stop/sit whistle in all scenarios. Start close so the dog sits ssy 5ft in front, blow sit whistle throw dummy send dog. So it builds a positive reinforcement of the sit. If the dog runs in just ignore it takr retreive and start over again.

She sits to the whistle close to me immedietly because she’s expecting a retrieve. She sits to the whistle at a distance if her attention is on me beforehand. I’ll start working on this more. Is there a good method for teaching this reliably?

[Springcopse spaniels]

Repetition x1000 and never send her for something that is not there.
Mix up distances, some.close some far etc

[burntheships]

I keep at it then, I think I’m lucky she enjoys it so much.

Whilst on our walk today she started hunting in thick cover and went about 50m in. I didn’t recall her to see what she was doing and she returned to me with a dead rat in her mouth and tried to give me it id be lying if I said I didn’t gag and the smell hit my nose.