Gundog Training Forum

Scot-ish

yes all my dogs are tested and added to both the CSDB and my KC which if you read anything properly you would know. I have concealed nothing - why would I when I was the one who brought AMS into the open having bred the dam of the first dog tested. All this is documented way back on this thread.

Why persist with percentages other than those that I gave of dogs tested and added to the data bases. We know, as I stated, that those figures are a small percentage of the thousands of Cockers
in the UK (which is what we are talking about) and I doubt we will ever know the true figures as so many will never be tested for a variety of reasons.

I have only ever said that if you want to breed you should test to be sure of not getting affected pups. Anyone wishing to test regardless of their breeding plans MAY help us to learn more.
Yes a top stud line of 3 / 4 generations is implicated but it is not proven and no I' m not going to name it. This is where notification of testing results MAY in time lead to a definite answer. Until then it is speculation and IMO should not be put in print. Everyone is entitled to their own theories - but that is all they are. The only facts are those that are put on the databases.

Weardalesman

Where are or have been all the affected dogs? Misdiagnosed in some cases and put to sleep to save suffering in others. Given that a lot of vets have never heard about it and some are now saying that this is what they have come across in the past so who knows what has been missed or ignored in the past. We cannot go back - only forwards to prevent it with responsible breeding.

In each case of the 4 known tested affected dogs their vets have been unaware of AMS and it has only been their determination to find out what the dog was suffering from and the media publicity that led to a diagnosis.

Its just to easy to suggest that affected animals have been, " misdiagnosed in some cases" or put down, etc., no evidence for that exists!
Its superstition at best and scaremongering at worst.
What we do know is we have had very, very few PROVEN cases, which may be due to any one of a number of reasons.
Vigilance against any known health issue in a breeding programme is essential but so is using animal's that will transfer the very best proven working attributes.
Its essential to the good of the breed to NOT ignore the benefits of using proven ( EVEN IF A CARRIER) as I reiterate that both the KC and Antagene recommend the use of these animals, we can not afford to side-line and or denigrate this gene pool..

Weardalesman wrote:Its just to easy to suggest that affected animals have been, " misdiagnosed in some cases" or put down, etc., no evidence for that exists!
Its superstition at best and scaremongering at worst.
What we do know is we have had very, very few PROVEN cases, which may be due to any one of a number of reasons.
Vigilance against any known health issue in a breeding programme is essential but so is using animal's that will transfer the very best proven working attributes.
Its essential to the good of the breed to NOT ignore the benefits of using proven ( EVEN IF A CARRIER) as I reiterate that both the KC and Antagene recommend the use of these animals, we can not afford to side-line and or denigrate this gene pool..

Teddy,
banging heads against walls?
You might try and answer my questions in a sensible manner, without recourse to prevarication?
Though it might be a challenge!
" vets have been unaware of AMS and it has only been their determination to find out what the dog was suffering from and the media publicity that led to a diagnosis."
We know of an animal that is still suffering after a positive diagnosis, any of you know why?

Weardalesman wrote:Teddy,
banging heads against walls?
You might try and answer my questions in a sensible manner, without recourse to prevarication?
Though it might be a challenge!
" vets have been unaware of AMS and it has only been their determination to find out what the dog was suffering from and the media publicity that led to a diagnosis."
We know of an animal that is still suffering after a positive diagnosis, any of you know why?

Have you actually read anyone else's posts?

Teddy wrote:

Weardalesman wrote:Teddy,
banging heads against walls?
You might try and answer my questions in a sensible manner, without recourse to prevarication?
Though it might be a challenge!
" vets have been unaware of AMS and it has only been their determination to find out what the dog was suffering from and the media publicity that led to a diagnosis."
We know of an animal that is still suffering after a positive diagnosis, any of you know why?

Have you actually read anyone else's posts?

Why don't you ask the owner of the dog that's suffering?
There's plenty of people on here that would answer your questions if they made any sense!

Good news;
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/press-r ... -spaniels/

Teddy
Shame you cant hold a discussion without trying to insult someone who disagrees with you, but I am old enough to laugh it off, as its generally a diversion from answering .

"Why don't you ask the owner of the dog that's suffering?"

I think if any one who was keeping any dog in a such a miserable state, suffering (your words) from a condition that's offers no prospect of improvement, I would try and convince the owner to put it down.


Do you agree and are you willing to suggest its "suffering" is ended?

"There's plenty of people on here that would answer your questions if they made any sense"!


Simple enough question for you and those you appear to be speaking for?

Sorry but I haven't a clue what your on about?
YOU said you know of a dog that is suffering after a positive diagnosis? Have you lost the plot?

I agree with Teddy. It's like banging our heads on a brick wall!!

Weardalesman - you have said exactly what I did re breeding with carriers - as if I hadn't done so in the post before. Do you actually read what anyone else says or is your opinion the only one that counts? Everything I said IS FACT. I don't do theory and especially not with this.

As far as affected pups still being around - no idea. There are varying degrees of affected so if it is being managed then why not. Is it any worse than super vet replacing joints etc - which I think is fantastic but generally more about the owners feelings than what the animals are going to endure. What you also need to remember is that the cases we now know of have been months, even over a year, trying to find out what the problem is. They' ve finally had a diagnosis, the dog isn't in pain so they keep hoping.

When the Kennel Club get their act together and get Antagene to send them the test results, instead of the owners, then those with currently undisclosed tested carriers will be unable to inflict affected pups on the unsuspecting purchasers - of which sadly, there are still far too many. I might add that in my opinion they also need to flag up the untested parents of any tested affected dogs.