translating the 'hold'

[Hepe]

Do you have verbal sounds for pleasure and displeasure? yes Without knowing how sensitive the dog is sensitive as sh*t could you 'Arggg' at it when it drops the dummy then resend it with lots of 'Good dog' and keep the praise going as it comes back. doesn't usually work cos she's dropping it too close

Without reading the whole thread again, what happens if you only throw the dummy 3ft in front of you?

nothing!!, she looks at me as if to say, 'get it yourself'

I more think she's saying 'yes i know it's yours, i will leave it to you'

Helene

[David]

You need to wait for a forum Sage. There's a link some where to a well produced video of a trainer solving a retrieving problem with a black cocker. I'm sure he's got a training vest on rather than a game bag in the video.

I'd try putting the dog on the lead, sitting it in front of you, head up and putting the dummy in its mouth. Start walking back and use the lead in one hand to guide the dog and use your other hand to stroke/tickle the dog under its chin as you go (keep contact). Stop after a few yards but guide the dog right in to you and keep praising it before taking the dummy. Keep trying this as the dog might take a while to get the message.

And going back to the previous question if it won't get the dummy at 3ft, try and find something it will. would it run in on a rolling ball?

[Everything's Rosie]

don't know david, she's not a fan of tennis balls, but might try a rabbit skin dummy, yeah, that's all good advice, thanks.

aye, think pol and wullie must've gone doon the pub

[Rascal]

I’m not a forum sage but outside as soon as she picks the dummy you praise her and in the first vid and when she drops it and comes into your side you put your hand on her shoulder as in “that’s the right thing to do”. I think you are making her too keen to come into your side for reassurance and maybe that’s confusing her and praising her at the wrong place ie the pick up not the delivery. You are using a “mark” command which I wouldn’t use either.

Outside you steady her to the thrown dummy inside you don’t and you use more verbal encouragement to get her into you. I wouldn’t worry about her going around you at the minute as long as she holds it whilst she does but don’t take it until she is in front of you, then praise.

Here’s the link David is talking about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6CpEEBsfvA

Rascal

[Everything's Rosie]

Many thanks for that Rascal. I watched that a good while ago, glad I watched it again. I think i'm at the stage where i've tried so many things that i've lost any semblance of consistency i need to work out what the right thing is, and stick to it.

Yes, you're right. I had always given her a lot of praise for the pick-up as she was such a reluctant retriever...that's probably why she thinks 'job done'. That makes a lot of sense.
I think I do need to go see a good trainer.

[trekmoor]

I've taken a look at the film clips and the first thing I'd be changing is the type of dummy used. By the sound it made when hitting the road surface and the kitchen floor it is a "Pets at Home" type of dummy with possibly a hard plastic canister inside. Many dogs prefer a soft retrieve article ..... old socks stuffed with rags . If you decide to try old socks - do not wash them first !

I was given the type of dummy you are using two years ago. I cut off the end stuffed it with plumbers foam plastic pipe ,covered that with an old sock or two then resewed it and was much happier with that ..... and more importantly so were the dogs. If the dog will retrieve an old sock dummy it is possible to use a normal canvas dummy with the same smelly and often retrieved sock pulled over it. If the dog will then retrieve that then it is just a question of rolling the sock further and further back up the dummy until the dog is retrieving the bare canvas dummy.
I go to the lengths of walloping a Turner Richards type canvas dummy with a mallet before sending any dog for it. Even those dummies are often too firm for my liking.

By the stage you are at I would even be lying flat on my back to recall the dog with the dummy and praising the dog as it trampled all over me. I think your dog is far too "quiet." Maybe even too steady to the throw. I'd probably be winding her up for all I was worth in an effort to have her enjoying all the stages of a retrieve. Not just the run out and the start of the return back.
Her tail isn't wagging as high as I'd like to see it which to my mind means she is retrieving not so much because she enjoys it but because she wants to please you.
In short I'd try to get her to enjoy this far more. I'd forget all about nice sits and stays and just get her to enjoy the whole thing. The "fancy" bits can all be added later .

Wullie

[Polmaise]

imo.
It dont matter the 'thing', more the act!
So whether it was from pets at home or out of your bottom drawer?...if it likes the act, it will like the thing.

I would make it more interesting for a spaniel to 'find', the thing to bring back,rather than a boring old tarmac path ,or a sterile place like home! (imo)
Oh!! and I am sure I have mentioned somewhere, ''let it run in''

[Everything's Rosie]

Thanks Wullie and pol
She doesn't enjoy retrieving from 'boring' places at all, it is purely for my benefit, you are 100% there.

Out today in woodland and it's a different story she's really raring to go. but i thought i needed to get it right somewhere boring first....
I tried naj's advice and bogged into the cover along with her, got her to hunt it up, some marked and some blind. I did get one to hand, out of five or six...it was the last one and I left it at that, on a high.

Will try a different dummy. I didn't think of that, I was originally using the turner richards, but thought the wee one would be easier for her to get the hang of (ok...truthfully...it's much easier to put back into her mouth )

ok, going out tomorrow to gee her up a bit,

[Judy]

Interesting you should say let her run in, Pol., I was watching the videos and remembered that my first Cocker was the same, on a run in puppy retrieve she would always bring to hand ~ just like your dog in the kitchen ~ as soon as I started to formalise the retrieve and asked her to wait a few seconds she would go out with enthusiasm then drop the dummy a short distance away from me. Never did really work out why but she got over it quite quickly with a bit of encouragement. Second Cocker was the same but she very soon cottoned on to bringing it right in. It was almost as if they were unsure as to whether I really wanted the dummy as I'd made them wait a wee while before sending them. Just started steadying the pup and, so far, don't seem to have this problem, fingers crossed.

I don't do retrieve training every day either, treat 'em mean keep 'em keen!

[David]

I did get one to hand, out of five or six...it was the last one and I left it at that, on a high.

What did you do with the other five, if you picked them then to me your dog is getting mixed messages. If the dog drops it then ask for it again, if it wont go then kick the dummy further away or quickly throw is a few yards further and ask again.

The dog needs to get the message that dropping isn't what you want. Its going to take a while to fix but being consistent is what's required. Go back to basics and keep the retrieves short.

As Wullie say's a spaniel should be bouncing all over you. If you've seen Opie's demos he always has a boiler suite on to protect his clothes for dirty spaniels.