Gundog Training Forum

romanriver wrote:James try Genomia, I got PRA and FN for £82

Will do, thanks for that

beechessam wrote:Are we sure it's hereditary and passed on in a similar way to PRA etc?

Given it first reared its head quite a while ago, it's either well and truly established and we should be seeing more of it, or it's still a small problem.

I would have thought it would be more widespread if the above is accurate.

Ams is autosomal-recessive.

Copied from another forum

Acral Mutilation Syndrome
There is another suspected case of AMS in working cocker spaniels. This pup is unrelated (in the first few generations) to the first two known cases.
Glasgow Vet School and the Cocker Spaniel Breed health Coordinator have obtained the following figures from Antagene who say that there have been 72 tested of which 5 are carriers and 1 affected. In fact that should read 73 and 5 carriers as the affected pup and his aunt (clear) were both tested as Springers. Add to this the fact that as he was affected then both his sire and dam were carriers and two litter sisters were also affected plus the original untested pup by the same sire means that there is another known carrier bitch totalling 8 known carriers and 4 known affected pups.
AMS “is a rare autosomal recessive genetic sensory neuropathy that results in mutilation of distal extremities” which affects about 50% of the offspring of carriers. Those of us who have bought or bred affected pups have had absolutely no idea of the condition and it is not something you would wish on your worst enemy. This is not to say that anyone is to blame (unless they knew about it and kept quiet). It is therefore important that everyone wishing to breed from their dogs should now test for AMS to avoid spreading this dreadful condition any further.

This should be framed and hung on every breeder's wall, extrapolating those figures gives something like (maths is not my best subject) 12% of the population carrying this. if every dog in the breeding pool were tested it would still be possible to eradicate this disease just as Irish Setters eliminated CLAD. But of course the KC need to get their finger out and start publicising this, all breeders need to be aware of it too, it wont be easy.

Judy wrote:This should be framed and hung on every breeder's wall, extrapolating those figures gives something like (maths is not my best subject) 12% of the population carrying this. if every dog in the breeding pool were tested it would still be possible to eradicate this disease just as Irish Setters eliminated CLAD. But of course the KC need to get their finger out and start publicising this, all breeders need to be aware of it too, it wont be easy.

No, it won't be easy, EVERYONE thinking of breeding needs to do this test and not piggyback on those of us that have tested and have a clear AMS certificate!
The breed clubs are now on board and are talking to the KC ......

Judy wrote:This should be framed and hung on every breeder's wall, extrapolating those figures gives something like (maths is not my best subject) 12% of the population carrying this. if every dog in the breeding pool were tested it would still be possible to eradicate this disease just as Irish Setters eliminated CLAD. But of course the KC need to get their finger out and start publicising this, all breeders need to be aware of it too, it wont be easy.

no, your figures will be miles out - most of those test's were carried out due to showing the signs of AMS, or being related to another dog which has shown the signs, or was a known carrier. I also believe there has been 3 affected tested as well, but 1 or 2 of those have been PTS already.

i agree though, given the right testing, this could be killed off pretty quickly, but it would need everyone breeding onboard- the only way that will happen is if the KC refuse to register from a mating unless sire/dam have been tested.

scot-ish wrote:

Judy wrote:- the only way that will happen is if the KC refuse to register from a mating unless sire/dam have been tested.

That would set a precedent for all health tests in all breeds and is never going to happen!

Teddy wrote: AMS “is a rare autosomal recessive genetic sensory neuropathy that results in mutilation of distal extremities” which affects about 50% of the offspring of carriers.

Presumably, if the genetics are the same as for PRA, this means 50% of a carrier x carrier mating would be affected. And as I understand it, an affected dog does not automatically mean the condition will develop.

romanriver wrote:

scot-ish wrote:

Judy wrote:- the only way that will happen is if the KC refuse to register from a mating unless sire/dam have been tested.

That would set a precedent for all health tests in all breeds and is never going to happen!

And nor should it, if a ban like that came in it would do more damage to the quality of working gundogs than anything else to date.

I totally agree, there's got be a balance to be found for the health AND the working ability or we will be breeding the perfect plugs before too long.