Article on the state of the modern day springer spaniel

[Rothievale]

And I will also be shot down in flames by saying that I have seen him in several open trials up here in Scotland and not been impressed by him at all. Maybe he is one that suits brambles better or I saw him on off days, nothing against Simon, I love watching his FTCh bitch Woodstorm Avril, she is a cracker.

[Rothievale]

I think that judges need to revisit what a spaniel should be-a natural game finder-not an over handled robot under your feet.

I'll second that. Too much of the spaniel work I see could be done almost as well by my feet ! Spaniels are seen tick-tocking over their handlers feet completely regardless of wind direction. What happened to Erlandsons ideas of hunting to the wind ? Are spaniels now meant to find game by hunting such a close tight pattern that their noses become redundant for much of the time ? Are spaniels being deliberately taught to , "find with their feet." Not my words, those are the words of a couple of A panel judges from many years ago who feared this was beginning to happen back then.

Wullie

I'll third that! Unfortunately 2 top trialling handlers once said to me that I should be hunting my dogs in a tight pattern as if I was hunting into the wind, regardless of what the wind was doing to make sure that I didn't miss game. This was when I was letting Mannie cast out and hunt a backwind back and they said he was pulling. I was aghast! As a pointer handler this is cardinal sin! IMHO, the same as you Wullie, a dog must be allowed to work the wind properly in order to find game efficiently with it's nose, not it's presence! I love seeing a dog locating game using the wind rather than disturbing it through it's body action and stylish swishy tail!

[peterbeater]

And I will also be shot down in flames by saying that I have seen him in several open trials up here in Scotland and not been impressed by him at all. Maybe he is one that suits brambles better or I saw him on off days, nothing against Simon, I love watching his FTCh bitch Woodstorm Avril, she is a cracker.

why should anyone be shot down in flames?.i do not think the man would be offended one bit after all the dog is a heavily marked stud that people seem to want. The dog can win on rabbits or pheasants. The dog was made up very young in very few trials which proves some like him. I would love to own a dog with those credentials.

[trekmoor]

Helen, I have never competed in a spaniel trial , only in a few tests. My cocker Dax has won just one test. I was surprised to win it as Dax worked to the wind which was a tail wind. I've always allowed and expected my spaniels to work the wind and usually I lose a good number of points in tests due to this.

In the test Dax won I'd struck lucky, I hadn't known it at the time but apparently the A panel judge used to trial pointers and setters ! I think most of the other dogs had worked to their handlers feet with the "wrong" judge judging !

I think I'll wait until that judge is judging a trial before I enter one.

Wullie

[Amberquest]

I agree wih a lot of what was written in the article, and after seeing a 17 month old trial prospect at the weekend I can see where his comments are coming from. Yes the dog was fast and covered the ground, but at times it looked like it was covering the ground too quickly, and missing the ball which had been thrown for it. The trainer has a number FT awards so I am not doubting their abilities, but the dog just didn't look like a traditional springer to me. It was very slight and when quartering also looked pointer like in the way it held itself.

Again, just an OPINION, as all dogs are different and it's hard to specify a 'type' of springer.

[trekmoor]

Working "style" is surely in the eye of the beholder just as much as beauty is. My son, who is a dog lover but not a dog trainer, happened to be with me when I was with one of my mates and his F.T.Ch. springer. This dog had just been made up to champion a few days before and my mate was understandably very proud of him. He offered to give me a quick demo of him hunting among some rough grass. The dog worked close, fast and "busily" needing no whistle. It was just a short hunt and then my mate turned to us and asked how we'd liked his dog's hunting. My son, completely innocently, replied, " Is that what he was doing ? I thought he was looking for a good place to crap !"
I very nearly rolled about the ground laughing !

Wullie

[Boundarymoor]

I must say, at last, several threads that are interesting to follow, some great points and quotes from top Guys.

My personal preference is solid head, with heavy markings all over, anyone who has seen any of mine will tell you. The dogs I'm running right now are from Cortman Lane, Kipperidge, Badgercourt lines and it show's immediately you cast them off. Ok along the way I have added new blood, but 70/30 of the breeding is what I would call "good old fashioned traditional spaniels" which can sleep between runs and get up and go when asked. They take their drive and natural tenasity (er spelling) from my Bitch, added to some good old handleable blood from the Sire, a great mix of two lovely spaniels. Alas, I have lost my 5 yr old bitch suddenly this year but I do have a 2yr old bitch from her to Spirit, who is looking very nice at the moment..

Imagine my horror, when recently attending Mid Wales (Powys) to collect a 22 week old dog that had become available, out of FTCH Sire to a FTW Bitch, the sire being a traditional looking, well marked, with proven ability and a worthy Champion. OMG, shock horror the little fella was all white, with a clam face and one liver ear, eek! Having travelled for 2.5hrs I wasnt going home without a demo. He's as busy as any 22 week old pup I've seen but timid, peeing everywhere. I've now had him four days and he's a different dog, I've encouraged a lower action, by using kibble on grass, he sits up when asked, recall's everytime, but an absolute monster on a lead, which doesnt bother me really. But hey, does it matter what they look like? (joking, honest)

[arwesa]

So are you saying this new prospect is looking great AND modern breeding (being all white?) and therefor disagreeing? if so, comparing to your previous more 'traditional' lines what are you finding to be positives/negative differences if any?

[Rolo]

He's as busy as any 22 week old pup I've seen but timid, peeing everywhere. I've now had him four days and he's a different dog, )

Fancy taking Rolo for 4 days, il pay good money if you can get him to stop peeing

PLeaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[fusey]

Just browsing through and came across this thread and saw 'Chance' mentioned. I saw Chance from being an 8 week old puppy through to being fully trained. Everything that he did was done with enthusiasm and he always gave 100% whether out training on rabbits / pheasants or just on dummies. Where he excelled i think, was in cover - he absolutely smashed bramble as I've witnessed first hand whilst he was training up in Yorkshire with me.
Another dog i have had the good fortune to train with is Ian Clarkes 'Kidnanis Successor', a flashy white bitch. A fantastic bitch on rabbits, takes lines for fun, hunts like a daemon and also smashes bramble.
Everyone will have their opinion on dogs, old and new, having not seen the old type spaniels only the new type, i am very satisfied with what i have seen.
Cheers, Paul