3 way split?

[pontbeck]

I personally think we are driving up a blind alley with the analogy , Sprinter / Marathon runner as the physiology of a spaniel who trials and one that rough shoots is one and the same. Whereas , Mo Farah is built totally differently to Mark Lewis Francis or Linford Christie. I agree with whoever posted that if you take out a dog for 20 mins, like the trailers, it will hunt like stink for 20 mins and conversely for those who take their dogs out for longer periods of time. Drive, however, IMO is genetic and cannot be instilled if not already there.
I don't see that there will be a similar split between trial and non trialing working spaniels as there has been between the show and working lines as the majority of those who want to work a dog will look for parents that have shown that ability and unless you know of dogs personally trial dogs have a proven record in the field.

Bill

[Naj]

Exactly! If trial dogs were the hypothetical sprinter then they would have a different build type to other spaniels, which they don't. Working & trial dogs are one & the same. Even on the basic mechanics of fitness training for speed as opposed to endurance, how many trail dogs get specialist conditioning, other than running them for no more than 20 minutes, not particularly taxing for a moderately fit dog & unlikely to make much difference to muscles type. Few, if any, pros have the time to repeatedly hunt them after short recovery periods, & I don't hear of many suggesting bike work & running machines as a means to help conditioning.

Posters are also talking about endurance but how many actually work their spaniels for longer than half an hour without a break? If you are beating or working on a stand & walk type shoot or any form of semi organised shoot then the dog will be continually stop/starting. How many drives last longer than 30 minutes? Fit dogs quickly recover with short breaks so even on a 'full days' beating or semi-organised shooting day there will be only relatively short periods of hunting & lots of breaks in between. Not something that I would consider demanding of great endurance. I would suggest that their are relatively few people who demand real endurance of their dogs, & they are generally 'real' roughshooters & those working pointing breeds on dogging moors. I'm not saying that those who work on more formal types of shooting don't have supremely fit dogs, just that their 'endurance' isn't that much different to many of the dogs competing in trials.

Naj

[Qest12]

If trial dogs were the hypothetical sprinter then they would have a different build type to other spaniels, which they don't

In a lot of cases there are differences in build between trial dogs and 'other' dogs. If you look at some ftch/trial Labs and Spaniels you will see they are very well muscled compared to your average pet picking up dog.

http://www.cynhinfasportingdogs.com/raq ... b31383i520

http://www.cynhinfasportingdogs.com/raq ... 489fdei520

http://www.gundogbreeders.co.uk/_dynami ... 5c1024.jpg

http://www.fendawoodstuddogs.co.uk/photos/image005.jpg

http://images2.champdogs.net/30221/p42285583.jpg

http://www.gundogbreeders.co.uk/_dynami ... 873a9c.jpg

http://www.kennelfuglevig.dk/Wordpress3 ... idge-2.jpg

http://www.ukgundogs.org/attachments/22 ... treive.JPG

[pontbeck]

I've shot in many field trials and can honestly say those dogs that were competing looked very much like the pet picking up dogs my friends and I work and they were certainly no fitter

Bill

[Naj]

If trial dogs were the hypothetical sprinter then they would have a different build type to other spaniels, which they don't

In a lot of cases there are differences in build between trial dogs and 'other' dogs. If you look at some ftch/trial Labs and Spaniels you will see they are very well muscled compared to your average pet picking up dog.

I was referring to body type/conformation - we can all condition a dog to carry either muscle or fat. These dogs could easily be litter brothers/sisters, one in a trials home, one a working home.

Naj

[Qest12]

If trial dogs were the hypothetical sprinter then they would have a different build type to other spaniels, which they don't

In a lot of cases there are differences in build between trial dogs and 'other' dogs. If you look at some ftch/trial Labs and Spaniels you will see they are very well muscled compared to your average pet picking up dog.

I was referring to body type/conformation - we can all condition a dog to carry either muscle or fat. These dogs could easily be litter brothers/sisters, one in a trials home, one a working home.

Naj

"we can all condition a dog to carry either muscle or fat" I can't help but feel you're being contradictory.
Anyway, thats the point I'm trying to make; we can influence the condition of the mutt by how we train it.

All the dogs in the links are ftch/trial dogs.

[pontbeck]

There's no argument in that ( It's all in the training ) and for give me but your posts appear to me to be contradictory

[Naj]

[
All the dogs in the links are ftch/trial dogs.

My apologies, I thought that some of the links were examples of the 'average pet picking-up dogs' that you alluded to.

Naj

[pontbeck]

You could be forgiven for that Naj

[Bryn]

[
All the dogs in the links are ftch/trial dogs.

My apologies, I thought that some of the links were examples of the 'average pet picking-up dogs' that you alluded to.

Naj

Phew I'm not alone I'm sure it was just the way some of the pics were taken