Simultaneous verbal and physical cue confuses ?

[Springfield Pointers]

Not following. If a dog is trained to come on on whistle. It matters not whether it can see you at all. Never mind if you are facing it - that's irrelevant.

[Judy]

If a young dog is used to seeing you walk away, turn and face it and then whistle / give hand signals then it might carry on sitting if you have your back to it, particularly if you have reinforced the "stay" by doing foolish things like jump up and down and wave your arms in the air before giving the trained cues. Later of course we whistle and they come from wherever, with any luck.

[Bang'nsit]

But that's an interesting notion - taxing the dog's brain more. are there trained behaviours whose learning of them 'taxes' a dog more than others?

Naj

Bit of a deep one and over my head but I'd assume anticipation of something else could be one. I.e. sit to flush but the dog knowing a retrieve is coming dependant on command, commands being send or back off and carry on hunting urging the dog to rely on reading you more. In the formative stages of training surely this is an additional task for the dog to process therefore being more taxing. I always see any 'sequence' of events as more complex but does the dog break each one down separately dependant on the handlers cues. I'm boring myself now

[crackerd]

...I always see any 'sequence' of events as more complex but does the dog break each one down separately dependant on the handlers cues. I'm boring myself now

Step right up, Bang, by boring yourself, you're now a bonafide candidate for North American retriever field trials. Training for them is on "concepts" which all but require the dogs to hold an advanced degree in trigonometry. I can't do an equation for you, but as to its complexity, one retrieve of the three or four to be made in succession by each dog casts a magnified influence on the next retrieve and the one after that. Yeah, v. complex, and either the dog breaks it down or (more often) it breaks the dog down.

MG

[Springfield Pointers]

Come on MG, you're making things more complicated than they are. Dogs learn by association (hopefully pleasant) I like to work towards the birds, and resulting actions of shooters, being the commands. If everything works out right, the unfolding shoot has within it, all the commands the dog requires to function like a citizen. This would be the same as training a dog to do more intricate North American party tricks for prizes. Some of which have no practical purpose or function in a dogs rough shooting repertoire.

[Naj]

Come on MG, you're making things more complicated than they are. Dogs learn by association (hopefully pleasant) I like to work towards the birds, and resulting actions of shooters, being the commands. If everything works out right, the unfolding shoot has within it, all the commands the dog requires to function like a citizen. This would be the same as training a dog to do more intricate North American party tricks for prizes. Some of which have no practical purpose or function in a dogs rough shooting repertoire.

Exactly

[Naj]

But that's an interesting notion - taxing the dog's brain more. are there trained behaviours whose learning of them 'taxes' a dog more than others?

Naj

Bit of a deep one and over my head but I'd assume anticipation of something else could be one. I.e. sit to flush but the dog knowing a retrieve is coming dependant on command, commands being send or back off and carry on hunting urging the dog to rely on reading you more. In the formative stages of training surely this is an additional task for the dog to process therefore being more taxing. I always see any 'sequence' of events as more complex but does the dog break each one down separately dependant on the handlers cues. I'm boring myself now

Think you've answered your own question there in the very last bit (not the boring yourself bit!). I don't think any 'learning' is any more or less taxing for a dog's brain to process. Rather, it is more likely to be taxing to the handler trying to communicate to a dog what they want. Sequences (behaviour chains) actually make the learning easier because each 'chain' rewards the last as the dog progresses through them to the end goal. And they become even easier if back-chained when taught because the dog is then always working towards familiar ground.

Naj

[trekmoor]

And there was me thinking it was just a case of "me throw it, you fetch it !"

Wullie

[newf]

And there was me thinking it was just a case of "me throw it, you fetch it !"

Wullie

Sounds crazy to me. However it could work, though, a lot could go wrong if one doesn't have a clue.

[Naj]

That'd never work. Far too simple.