Gundog Training Forum

8.2 DR, very smart she is too. Although I am going to have her parentage DNA tested as I suspect from her general attacking nature on life that there is a bit of terrier in the mix

Joking apart I have a query for those that understand DNA testing better than I do:

I have two brothers one of whom looks and sounds so alike me that people sometimes mistake us for each other (this led to some interesting conversations when we were young ) and one who looks and sounds nothing like us, assuming no one faked our birth certificates and it is to late to ask our parents will the brother's DNA profile who looks like me be more like mine than the other one or is that irrelevant and it is merely the fact that we are brothers that will affect it?

Not necessarily as that is just the phenotype playing out, it's such a teeny part of the genetic makeup .....


And back to the case in point a bitch of mine tested carrier for PRA and I was devastated. After a lot of soul searching she's now due to whelp on the 27th to a clear dog and I'm going to test all the pups. Be very interesting to see the proportions of carriers to clears!

Two of the HK carriers were mine. I'll always regret having a knee jerk reaction and selling the bitch, she was superb and I should have kept her

rhosyn wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:39 pm
And back to the case in point a bitch of mine tested carrier for PRA and I was devastated. After a lot of soul searching she's now due to whelp on the 27th to a clear dog and I'm going to test all the pups. Be very interesting to see the proportions of carriers to clears!

Two of the HK carriers were mine. I'll always regret having a knee jerk reaction and selling the bitch, she was superb and I should have kept her

Carriers are no problem provided they are tested and known Carriers. We still need a lot of attitudes to change about testing and the results of testing. We can have health tested dogs and working ability. I did a quick list of about 13 dogs with SB numbers, including FTCH earlier somewhere on this thread and a trawl (uncompleted as yet) a couple of days ago showed another 27, including another 3 FTCH. But as Judy also said earlier, paraphrasing, we need dogs with a range of abilities for day to day working, not just the flash and speed of a FTCH.

Unfortunately the main driving force is breeding to win trials. But most dogs end up in a beating line or picking up, and probably more end up as pets than working dogs. The basics for working or shooting over a dog are pretty simple and haven't changed over the last century, and your ordinary punter really doesn't need anything faster, flashier or hotter just to find a pheasant or a retrieve. But field trials have changed and are now more of a test of control of the handler over the dog rather than a test of the working qualities of the dog. Just read an interview on Bill Meldrum who said pretty much the same about how trials have changed since the 50s and how they've diverged from real shooting situations. theres a lot of assumptions made about a show cross but I think they're mainly supposition because there have been examples of where they've produced trial quality dogs for those interested in trials.

Naj

Naj wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:47 pm But field trials have changed and are now more of a test of control of the handler over the dog rather than a test of the working qualities of the dog.

I would suggest the working qualities sought from the dog are unchanged, the dogs are just better trained than they used to be so the handlers able to demonstrate the best work with the most capable animal consistently come to the top. From a spaniel trialling perspective.

WGD wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:46 pm

Naj wrote: ↑Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:47 pm But field trials have changed and are now more of a test of control of the handler over the dog rather than a test of the working qualities of the dog.

I would suggest the working qualities sought from the dog are unchanged, the dogs are just better trained than they used to be so the handlers able to demonstrate the best work with the most capable animal consistently come to the top. From a spaniel trialling perspective.

Interesting to see the different perspectives:
From the KC winter Field Trials Newsletter - http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/1 ... letter.pdf

Concerns were raised at the 2016 Field Trial Liaison Council that
the correct judging of the hunting abilities of a spaniel were
still being ignored by some judges. Previous advice issued is
reiterated below:
There is a concern, which has been raised by many
experienced Spaniel handlers and judges, that the current
approach to judging the hunting ability of a Spaniel is often
not being adapted to the conditions on the day and does not
appropriately reflect the natural instincts of the dogs. Owing to
this judging style, trials are now being won by dogs that have
been trained to virtually ignore the wind and hunt in an almost
robotic face wind pattern, being rigidly and purposely kept
within only a few feet of the handler. This technique makes the
dog double and treble hunt its ground as it has so little ground
to work within. Loose game is often moved or flushed quite
close simply by the existence and pressure from the trial line;
however, handlers are expecting to be credited with a find for
such a flush.