Gundog Training Forum

Somebody is going to be footing the bill for this thread shortly.

Judy wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:31 pm Somebody is going to be footing the bill for this thread shortly.

I wouldn't tolerate sloppy retrieving if the dog was once good at delivery to hand.

Springcopse spaniels wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:11 pm I wouldn't tolerate sloppy retrieving if the dog was once good at delivery to hand.

I am taking steps to rectify and so far so good. I cannot pin point when it started but i am confident that i can sort it. Been out for a walk about this afternoon, one pheasant for two shots bird delivered to hand no drop but used constant whistle to be sure

Springcopse spaniels wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:11 pm I wouldn't tolerate sloppy retrieving if the dog was once good at delivery to hand.

You say you wouldnt tolerate it and I totally agree. But what would you do to rectify it? Or would you just move the dog on?
I have had so many stories of spaniels with retrieving problems of late. Dogs being moved on as so called non retrievers. Its quite alarming, either there is a fault in the breeding of spaniels or there is a problem with trainers not being able to teach the basic retrieve.

I have no idea why or even when it started but i believe it is the beginning of a learned behaviour and has become a sort of ritual for her. Whistling her on the return seems to do the trick and i expect that after a while i will be able to drop it , pardon the pun

westcountry wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 6:09 pm

Springcopse spaniels wrote: ↑Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:11 pm I wouldn't tolerate sloppy retrieving if the dog was once good at delivery to hand.

You say you wouldnt tolerate it and I totally agree. But what would you do to rectify it? Or would you just move the dog on?
I have had so many stories of spaniels with retrieving problems of late. Dogs being moved on as so called non retrievers. Its quite alarming, either there is a fault in the breeding of spaniels or there is a problem with trainers not being able to teach the basic retrieve.

Seen plenty of dogs stop to adjust their grip, particularly if they are soft mouthed and its a strong runner, that's normal behaviour in my book, if they always do it at the same distance from you then it does need attention, so, yes, what would you do, Springcopse?
I have watched a "pro" trainer clout a dog for dropping the retrieve when it got close to him, needless to say I had words but if this is the norm I'm not surprised Spaniels get moved on as non retrieving. Have to say when my old girl would put a strong runner down and re-catch it I would usually be too busy repressing a laugh to do much other than an "OI!" she was such a character. It didn't happen often and I think she aspired to be another Charlie, one woman comedy show when she was in that mood.

Many years ago (cue fiddle mood music ) I went to watch a friend run his springer in a trial and at lunch break Erlandson was holding court with the luminaries of the day (Harry Hardwick, John and Peggy Pratt, Jack Davis, Arthur Cooke, Bernard Dutton and a few others and the question of retrieving problems and dropping birds cropped up. You could hear jaws figuratively dropping to the floor all around as Erlandson confided that he didn’t mess around with problem dogs but gave them a couple of chances and if they didn’t make good shot them and shoved them in a hole. I often wondered if that was down to his love of Hales Smut, who brought fire to the breed but also retrieving problems according to many. Joe Irvine hated the dog for this very reason and took every opportunity in print or vocally to rubbish the dog.

Getting back to present day I’d have thought that any pro trainer could fix a Retrieve/delivery issue, one way or the other. Unless springers have deteriorated so badly as a breed.

Naj

Pretty brutal. But practically, it does sort out the genetics you want to develop .. Provided the guy knows what he's looking at. I know another well known personality up north who wasn't averse to putting bad dogs in the ground...

I think it is important to distinguish between "retrieving" problems and "delivery" problems. If a springer or retriever had no desire to go out and seek out a fallen bird I might be inclined to follow Erlandson's solution (more likely move it on as a pet). However if the dog enthusiastically goes out to seek the bird and picks it but does not deliver it well there are lots of cures for that. No retrieving desire is a genetic problem, poor delivery is just a training issue.