irish-english springers

[Rothievale]

James you are so diplomatic!!!!

I'm sorry but I watched the first two videos and was not impressed by the dogs at all, they ran about in the open for the best part of it, only entering the cover when asked to or just sticking their noses in. Are these supposed to be hard hunting spaniels? A hard hunting spaniel would not have been seen IMO it would have been in the cover continuously. so much cover to get stuck into and yet these dogs skirted round it most of the time, I'd like to know which way the wind was blowing to know if they were working a cheek wind or working it back but seriously.....I wasn't impressed at all. Sorry if my opinion offends.

[WGD]

If this is the mythical beast that nobody breeds anymore I'm afraid you can keep it.

I have an Irish bred ESS that would burst that cover inside out if there was the prospect of a game bird sitting tight (admittedly without too much in the way of control). What she wouldn't be doing is running up the grass. I've another younger dog that would work it more methodically but perhaps not with such suicidal intent.

Each to their own as far as their dogs are concerned but there was nothing, irrespective of training, that made me think I was looking at a dog I would want to own or shoot over. I'm sure they do the job but having been the subject of this thread and one video described as an "exhibition" the OP has left themselves open to a critique.

[spanielful]

James you are so diplomatic!!!!

I'm sorry but I watched the first two videos and was not impressed by the dogs at all, they ran about in the open for the best part of it, only entering the cover when asked to or just sticking their noses in. Are these supposed to be hard hunting spaniels? A hard hunting spaniel would not have been seen IMO it would have been in the cover continuously. so much cover to get stuck into and yet these dogs skirted round it most of the time, I'd like to know which way the wind was blowing to know if they were working a cheek wind or working it back but seriously.....I wasn't impressed at all. Sorry if my opinion offends.

The vid you refer to is titled springer spaniel hunting exhibition,sorry you weren't impressed.You rightly pointed out that the dogs weren't in the cover at all times, this is true,the ground outside the cover has a lot of rushes that also hold game from time to time,the dogs are experienced enough to know this and will hunt both.There is another vid entitled pheasant hunt in Ireland with springer spaniels that maybe gives another view.

[Rothievale]

As I said,I don't mean to offend. My experience of pheasants on ground such as that is that they are much more likely to be in the cover and hedges than they are the stubble and rashes. I got the impression that these dogs would just run up and down the stumbles or grass unless they were asked to enter the cover and at one point, exactly that happened, a pheasant was flushed and shot at but the dog had run past it and only flushed it because the handler asked it to come back and enter the cover. Surely that's a case of the handler found the game, not the dog? As I said, I can't be too critical as I don't know which way the wind was blowing, if it was a cheek wind then it would explain a bit of the running up and down but not the reluctance to get stuck into the cover. Have you been to any open trials and seen the dogs in action that you say are ruining the breed?

[James]

James you are so diplomatic!!!!
.

Now thats something I dont get called very often I think I like it lol

[Judy]

Don't get too used to it.

[spanielful]

As I said,I don't mean to offend. My experience of pheasants on ground such as that is that they are much more likely to be in the cover and hedges than they are the stubble and rashes. I got the impression that these dogs would just run up and down the stumbles or grass unless they were asked to enter the cover and at one point, exactly that happened, a pheasant was flushed and shot at but the dog had run past it and only flushed it because the handler asked it to come back and enter the cover. Surely that's a case of the handler found the game, not the dog? As I said, I can't be too critical as I don't know which way the wind was blowing, if it was a cheek wind then it would explain a bit of the running up and down but not the reluctance to get stuck into the cover. Have you been to any open trials and seen the dogs in action that you say are ruining the breed?

This is my second attempt to reply,my first try failed.The vid you referred to was filmed on a frosty morning with no wind at all and no scent either,as attested to by one of those who left a comment.True too that had the dog not been handled we would have passed that bird, again due to bad scenting conditions.Ihave indeed attended trials and I would still contend that trials are not representative of the typical roughshooting day in my experience.I take no offence by your comments,all opinions valued and noted.

[Rothievale]

Nice to 'converse' with someone who is not sensitive! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, granted, one of the days look frosty but I would've thought an experienced dog would pull to the cover and not shy away from it regardless of scenting conditions. Apart from one, all the dogs I have and have had who are trial bred and are successfully trialled but are also capable of doing a days beating, will pull to cover, I can't get them out of it! Given the option of a field or a hedgerow/cover, they will always choose the cover and in my opinion, that is what I want in a spaniel, I don't want to have to put them in the cover, or ask them to go in.

[spanielful]

If this is the mythical beast that nobody breeds anymore I'm afraid you can keep it.

I have an Irish bred ESS that would burst that cover inside out if there was the prospect of a game bird sitting tight (admittedly without too much in the way of control). What she wouldn't be doing is running up the grass. I've another younger dog that would work it more methodically but perhaps not with such suicidal intent.

Each to their own as far as their dogs are concerned but there was nothing, irrespective of training, that made me think I was looking at a dog I would want to own or shoot over. I'm sure they do the job but having been the subject of this thread and one video described as an "exhibition" the OP has left themselves open to a critique.

I have never described my dogs as beasts that nobody breeds anymore, incidentallyI wouldn't want to own yours either, not much point in an out of control dog in a hunting situation or any other situation either.I am welcoming of any critique,yours included.

[WGD]

An exchange is always welcome, thanks for your response. My response is pretty much summed up by Rothievale.

Your dogs suit you and as I said that for me is it, each to their own. But you did raise the question, you cited (and my apologies if it wasn't you) something along the lines of big strong dogs hunting with incredible pace through the thickest of cover all day long. I have watched a few of your clips and that is not what I see.

In perfect honesty I see thick set dogs carrying a bit of weight keeping in reasonable touch with their owner and acting as if they are out for a walk, poking into cover if there was scent. In one clip the dog picked a bird from water and delivered it to a handler on the other side... why? That is training, fair enough, but I expect a shot bird back to my hand from my eon dog.

They will find game, they will do the job, but to say they are more up to the job than the "trialling" spaniel I'm afraid I cannot agree with.

And with regards to my own, oldest bitch, she draws on and gets a bit self employed because she has been exclusively a picking up dog for the last 4 years and self employment gets the job done.

Enjoy your dogs mate, have fun that is the only reason I do it.