I can remember teaching Ben one of my first spaniels to point very effectively using a long line in a rabbit pen. As you can imagine, I did not mean to, but I was inexperienced, keen, and nervous!! It was good for shooting but not so good for competition.
Martin
I find it odd that a spaniel which points even for an instant is downmarked in trials for, as you say Martin, it is good for shooting. My cocker Charlie had been freehunted and I had no access to a rabbit pen in which to change the chase behaviour into a sit so I deliberately set out to teach him to point . This was done on a long lead or cord and I began by getting him to sight point wild rabbits then extended that to scent points. A point is more easily changed to a sit than a chase is and it wasn't long before Charlie would sit if a rabbit ran. Since then there has a big die-off among the rabbits in this area........... I strongly suspect that due to lack of practice on rabbits ,Charlie would now chase again.
Right back to the main subject.......... Phasing out the collar. How do you go about this Martin ?
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
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Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
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A Spaniel that points and is then instructed to flush should be credited in a field trial as long as it flushes on one command and is not judge to be shying away from the flush. I'll dig out the exact wording when I get my rules from the car. It's wet here so I ain't going out yet A dog that moves to improve its view of a mark should also be credited.
Both of these are obviously down to the discretion of the judge.
Thank you David, I have never read the K.C. rules for spaniel trials, I've just been told bits and pieces and tried to work out the rest for myself from what I 've seen.
It's raining heavily here too but I was a good boy and still took the dogs out for a good long run and a bit of training. I used to deplore fair weather dog trainers but I must admit that being one gathers in appeal as I get a bit older !
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
A Spaniel that points and is then instructed to flush should be credited in a field trial as long as it flushes on one command and is not judge to be shying away from the flush. I'll dig out the exact wording when I get my rules from the car. It's wet here so I ain't going out yet A dog that moves to improve its view of a mark should also be credited.
Both of these are obviously down to the discretion of the judge.
David
There is a lot of difference between rules and discretion sometimes. GG
In the States a dog is not only expected to go straight in but to provide the strongest of flush even following it upwards before then sitting. Seen some very exciting flushes in trials over here. Seen some very clever ones from very game savvy dogs in UK. Nothing like a good hunting spaniel to get the juices flowing!
If I may digress I think it was Medos Samurai I watched in a Championship a few years back now. He went into a small patch of low cover and you could see him indicating a bird, he hit it once, nothing came out, he hit it a second time and nothing came out, he hit it a third time I think, and nothing came out. At this he went in carefully put his nose right into the cover and with a flick lifted the bird out and basically flicked it into the air. Unforgettable. That was the one that Poppet of Balscott went on to win at Shadwell. A few years back now.
so by using the collar for positive training how long does the dog have to wear the dummy collar for before using the real thing ? I know as an adversive u would use the dummy collar for perhaps a week prior to the real one!!!
trekmoor wrote:Thank you David, I have never read the K.C. rules for spaniel trials, I've just been told bits and pieces and tried to work out the rest for myself from what I 've seen.
Wullie
Rule J(C) 9 "If a dog points, or hesitates slightly before flushing, this is an added refinement but the dog must flush on command."
Rule J(C) 10 "A dog should stop to flush, game and shot, but if it moves in order to mark the fall, if it is obscured, this shows intelligence and should be credited"
Thanks David, I'd be quids in with Charlie on the pointing thing ........until I told him to flush and he jumped in and grabbed the poor bird !
Wullie
If at first you don't succeed .....find out if there is a booby prize !
-----------------------------------------------------
Don't do what doesn't work - do what does.
.
so by using the collar for positive training how long does the dog have to wear the dummy collar for before using the real thing ? I know as an adversive u would use the dummy collar for perhaps a week prior to the real one!!!
trekmoor wrote:Thank you David, I have never read the K.C. rules for spaniel trials, I've just been told bits and pieces and tried to work out the rest for myself from what I 've seen.
Wullie
Rule J(C) 9 "If a dog points, or hesitates slightly before flushing, this is an added refinement but the dog must flush on command."
Rule J(C) 10 "A dog should stop to flush, game and shot, but if it moves in order to mark the fall, if it is obscured, this shows intelligence and should be credited"
David
Of course ,one can also throw in J Reg 'supremo', the dog that pleases the judge on the day?
David, are you a comittee' member of our local bowling club?, by any chance?
Now you are going "off thread" I was just going to say what an enthrawling thread this has become Yes I do use an e collar and I use the audible sound as the "touch". I use it , initially as an aversion to stop young dogs being kicked by young horses. (I had a 10 week old pup killed by a yearling colt 40 years ago and I never want it to happen again) Any way - thank you for some excellent discussion and I have ordered a copy of Martin's book.
A dog that moves to improve its view of a mark should also be credited. 
I was just going to say what an enthrawling thread this has become 
Yes I do use an e collar and I use the audible sound as the "touch". I use it , initially as an aversion to stop young dogs being kicked by young horses. (I had a 10 week old pup killed by a yearling colt 40 years ago and I never want it to happen again) Any way - thank you for some excellent discussion and I have ordered a copy of Martin's book.