Gundog Training Forum

Seen some Springers that looked like they had some Brittany in them. Ran a little too...

Springfield Pointers wrote:Seen some Springers that looked like they had some Brittany in them. Ran a little too...

Aye, I used to shoot with a guy who had one he clipped short in the summer... it looked like a GSP... ran like one too

Dawnrazor wrote:

fusey wrote:Totally agree Simon,in my opinion the best thing that happened to the cocker spaniel was the Springer added to them

Springer blood has been added to cockers for ever!!! The current cockers that have been accused of being "sprockers" are nothing new, recent springer blood has only really "freshend" cockers that already had springer blood in thier veins all be it a good few generations back, it's only "news" because there are that many "new" faces, people who have been involved in trials for maybe 10/15 years, those of us that are longer in the tooth are more surprised at the noise being made about it these days rather than that's it's been done!!!!

The breed needed the infusion and is where it is today because of it.

I was referring to the two dogs on the beaters wagon that are put together under the delusion that they produce pups better than other parent. Fact is they do it because they're too lazy to go to a decent stud of the same breed and don't have to pay KC fees. That's not to say they dont make serviceable working dogs in the right hands.

In regards competition dogs, yes it's always gone on, but if as we are being told there are now dogs that are more Springer than Cocker running in Cocker stakes then that is wrong, it's quite simply cheating and needs to stop now.

Quite right! If I go to top cocker breeding I expect a cocker, warts and all, not a sprocker. I pay for a cocker.

Naj wrote:Quite right! If I go to top cocker breeding I expect a cocker, warts and all, not a sprocker. I pay for a cocker.

You'll struggle then!!!
I seriously doubt there's such a thing as a"pure cocker" in the country, it depends on how far back you want to go? 5 + generations back in any cockers pedigree and you can find some jiggery-pokery!!! I'm not sure if there are spaniels being run as cockers that have more springer blood than cocker, I doubt it, but there's no doubt that that 3/4 - 5/8 - 3/8 or 1/16 blooded cocker to springer ratio are running, winning and being bred from, is this wrong, I'd say no, imo, and I've been going to cocker trials since the early 80's, I'd say the cocker is in the shape it may have ever been in, certainly the dogs now are, over all, there will always be someone who Say's a dog from the 70s was better!, better trained and better retrievers and seem more even than before, I see more with classicly springer action/style than what I'd call a cocker action, but the furore about today's sprockers is a bit over the top considering the breeds history.

I agree that it's a bit rich moaning about sprockers when that's what modern cockers are. I spectated at cocker trials in the 70s and they were pretty dire. I just missed seeing Speckle but was told by a pro trainer that she was like a very small springer. To me the action is everything and if dogs are winning that haven't the Cocker action then that just shows how rubbish the trial system is. We'd be better being open about it and having cockers and springers coming out of the same litter as was once the norm.

Naj

If you want a Springer buy a Springer (where do all these tiny ones come from?) butter off and leave the Cockers alone, those to whom winning is everything wreck the breeds in whatever competition they wish to succeed in whether it be showing or working. Dogs don't care whether they win or lose I care about having a dog which looks and works like a Cocker simply because I much prefer them to Springers, why should my choice be taken away by the win at all cost brigade?

Dawnrazor wrote:

Naj wrote:Quite right! If I go to top cocker breeding I expect a cocker, warts and all, not a sprocker. I pay for a cocker.

You'll struggle then!!!
I seriously doubt there's such a thing as a"pure cocker" in the country, it depends on how far back you want to go? 5 + generations back in any cockers pedigree and you can find some jiggery-pokery!!! I'm not sure if there are spaniels being run as cockers that have more springer blood than cocker, I doubt it, but there's no doubt that that 3/4 - 5/8 - 3/8 or 1/16 blooded cocker to springer ratio are running, winning and being bred from, is this wrong, I'd say no, imo, and I've been going to cocker trials since the early 80's, I'd say the cocker is in the shape it may have ever been in, certainly the dogs now are, over all, there will always be someone who Say's a dog from the 70s was better!, better trained and better retrievers and seem more even than before, I see more with classicly springer action/style than what I'd call a cocker action, but the furore about today's sprockers is a bit over the top considering the breeds history.

A cocker that was DNA tested by the lab recommended by the KC came back 55% Springer. Thats a fact!

beechessam wrote:
A cocker that was DNA tested by the lab recommended by the KC came back 55% Springer. Thats a fact!

Fair enough, I hadn't heard the %!! Do we know the name of the dog?

Yes but as it's currently being investigated by the KC it wouldn't be appropriate to name it.

The letter to the shooting times may have been anonymous, ST may have decided against publishing the name.

I do know that complaints are being investigated by the KC and are supported by DNA dogs names and owners.